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naden

Big game rifles

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NorthwestHunter

Dano,

If you think kinetic energy has nothing to do with killing an animal, this should be an informative read;


/>http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_bullet_killing_power.htm

Paul


Whitetail hunting, not just a 3 month season...a 12 month obsession

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dano

Yeah I stopped reading chuck hawks articles a long time ago, there is more valuable info elsewhere.

I didn't say KE had nothing to to do with killing animals just that KE doesn't kill animals. If it did a hunter should be able to shoot a animal wherever(leg , ear, hoof) and the energy from that bullet should kill it. It don't work that way. But if KE was the only way animals die explain to me how bow hunters are successful with their projectiles having low KE and why aren't all the rifle hunters using 460 weatherby magnums?

Any sort of "knock down power" is also totally myth. I've yet to see any animal flung off its feet when struck with a bullet with a " ton of energy"

So Northwesthunter if you are a true believer in kinetic energy killing animals keep the faith, we need dreamers, not just kids who believe in Santa Claus.

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randomheroj

Savage 300 mag with muzzle break 180 grain bushnell 3x9x50

Savage model 99 .300 lever with 160 grain open sights

Dartonrage2 if you ever wanna get rid of that savage 99 308 look me up lol

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eddylives

Dano

One young cow I shot at 40-50 yards with my Winchester model 71 348 with 210 grain silvertip did a total backflip when hit square in the chest facing me.

And I mean it did a complete backflip before it hit the ground lol

It is an awsome memory to reflect on

So to say there is no knock down power is false....I have done it

Now I have also shot a young bull broadside at 45-50 yards in the ribs and thought I missed lol

A splash of mud flew up behind it and it took a few steps before it fell over and got up a few times and went down for good

I think the circumstance of the shot plays a big roll in the knock it off its feet outcome when the trigger is squeezed

These are just my observations from years gone by


Have no fear of perfection.....you will never reach it

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NorthwestHunter

Dano,

I agree that shooting an animal in the hoof, ear, leg etc. wouldn't kill an animal, solely based on the effects from KE...at least that much we can agree on.

I'll be the first one to say that it's the shooter, not the caliber, and that shot placement is key.

From that article, and others I've read, an animals organs are damaged by a bullet when energy is transferred from the bullet into the animals body/organs. This can be seen when gutting a lot of animals shot with a bullet. You can see large masses of coagulated blood/ bruised tissue/ broken bones many inches away from the actual bullet hole. Call me crazy, but I do believe that is from the bullets energy.

Another example is the "shoulder shot" you see done so often now on deer. The shoulder shot is often so successful because you can take out the animals heart (if properly placed) and input a large amount of shock into the deers skeletal system. If kinetic energy isn't a deciding, or at least important factor what does kill the animal? The bullet sized hole through their organs? Solely relying on the animal bleeding out?

As for the fact at how an arrow kills an animal with such low kinetic energy, it's quite simple. Broadheads are designed to CUT and bleed out an animal. Hence all the latest and greatest broadhead brands boasting "largest cutting diameter" or "razor sharp blades." I have yet to see a bullet with blades attached.

What causes the large entry/exit holes in animals after being shot (like the guy who shot the moose in this thread)? Must be some act of God if it's not from bullet energy.

If more energy doesn't effect the killing power of a bullet then why are there a wide array of calibers? Aside from the fact of flatter trajectories. This would render short range, big bore calibers useless (like the 45-70).

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion...I just like to base mine on fact.

Paul


Whitetail hunting, not just a 3 month season...a 12 month obsession

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SherpaJ

I didn't say KE had nothing to to do with killing animals just that KE doesn't kill animals...explain to me how bow hunters are successful with their projectiles having low KE....Any sort of "knock down power" is also totally myth.

Dano,

By the same argument, just shot placement doesn't kill animals, just bullet diameter doesn't kill animals, just mushroom size doesn't kill animals! Yes these factors may be weighted differently, but ultimately they are all equally important! I'm not saying that your wrong, but your trying to raise an incomplete argument which has no "right" side. I might as well say that carbs didn't make Rosie O'donnell fat!

Explanation: arrows require less energy due to the fact that they require less force to penetrate the animals tissue, thanks to the sharp blades and lower kinetic friction. The main reason though that bullets require a much greater kinetic energy is because they are designed to use the majority of said energy to bend themselves and "mushroom" in order to increase the friction, thus increasing the force and requiring even more energy. I bet you can't stab yourself with a bullet, let alone bend the bullet with your hands, but I guarantee you could easily stab yourself with an arrow! simple physics.....

Knock down power is a myth? Do yourself a favour: Turn on your TV, Go to WildTV, and watch a Hornady commercial. that's all the proof you need for knock down power.

'nuff said!

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callawaydan

browning x bolt 270 wsm stainless steel with elite 6500 2.5x16.

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dano

If you guys want to believe in "knock down power" because you saw it on WildTv go ahead. I'll get my experience from actually shooting animals.

A bullet doesn't have enough mass to have "knock down"power, a 3/4 pickup has knock down power.

Just remember there's a law, I think his name was Newton, something about for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. So if your super duper magnum (or your 348 win) can knock a deer or moose off the ground you'll be getting the same thing. Knock down power is a myth and there are ways of proving its a myth.

Northwesthunter,

As far as the shoulder shot example your referring to it drops animals because there are major bones that get broken or the spine was hit.

Yeah stuff dies when there are holes in organs, a heart doesn't work to well when there's a hole in it.

SherpaJ

I was using the arrow example as proof that higher KE doesn't equal faster kills.

I've shot a fair number of animals with different cartridges and bullets at varying distances and delivering varying amounts of energy and I've never noticed a bullet that stays inside a animal kills any better or more quickly than one that's exits , same goes for a bullet that exits it doesn't kill any faster or better.

I've never said that energy is not present or not required when a bullet is fired, only said that KE doesn't kill animals.

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Mr. Canoehead

Wow you guys have some serious arsenals.

I got rid of my 3006 bolt this year In favour of an old winchester model 100 semi in .308 using 180gr soft points. Im happy to say I killed my first moose on my first day hunting with it. I will add that my friend shot it first with his 3006 at close range and his synthetic tip bullet just went right through it leaving little damage. My 308 with slower velocity and soft points left nice big holes. Cant wait to see how it drops a deer.

Unfortuantely my scope is frosting on the inside so im down to open sights for the season. Unless theres someone local who can re seal it for me?

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mooboy76

No.4 MK I in .303 Brit, with 1.5-4x Bushnell shotgun scope sitting on a no-drill scope mount.

Over the next two years, I will add a a Handi-Rifle in .45-70 GOVT or 20ga Weatherby SA-08, and maybe a Ruger Vanguard or Savage Axis in 7mm-08.


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