NOSA pushing to close Savanne River

[Lyle Reiner 174]

Heard on the radio they are pushing to close Savanne River until June. Although I don't fish it, I definitely support it. If people want to cry about slot sizes and regulations, look at rainy lake. It is an amazing fishery and the regulations are very stiff.

Food for thought anyway.

Discuss!

*****WARNING*****

If this thread gets name call-y, rude, "holier then thou" I will delete the post immediately. This is for a good hearted discussion on the merits of regulations to protect our beloved walleye.

/rant

[Pro fisherman-Stud Muffin 420]

Sure close it till June. I've fished the river once in the past 20 years.Better fishing elsewhere that time of year.

The river is already closed above rail bridge

They would just be extending it. Go ahead

[Fishbum 35]

At least all this savanna river open water talk... ( As we sit with 3ft of ice over it) sure is distracting from the steelhead... Roger can breath a sign of relief again lol

[Lundy 9]

I also have only fished the river a couple of times and it's always seemed to be the "shoulda been here yesterday" scenario for me. I agree with the guys who will say a spawning fish is a spawning fish no matter where it is caught and kept in the lake. But I think it comes down to the vulnerability and numbers of fish piled up in the river that ends up affecting the overall fishery. It makes no sense to have that river open and letting that many fish be taken. Even if the spawn is over or near done, when opening weekend comes there is usually still a ton of fish in there. As others say, there's a lot of good fishing elsewhere at that time of year. If the river gets closed that will also make it a lot safer and easier to get to the other fishing spots by not having to navigate around boat to boat to boat traffic. Just my two cents.

[sinker7 114]

Can't go wrong by protecting spawning fish or when they are congregated pre-spawn or post spawn. Sure there will be some un-happy fisherman but it would be best for the fishery.

[fishman1 164]

Yes the fish are very vulnerable there, so it should be closed.

[dano 8]

Why stop there, what about all the other river systems that get fished. Might as well just make it a June opener right across the entire zone.

[kaff 3]

HHHHHMMMMMMMMM Once upon a time a few years ago its was shut down early to protect the fish. But everyone bellyached and bitched until it was reopened again. Seems like can't please everyone all of the time.

[tracker 61]

The winter fishery was closed early (march 15th) quite a few years ago (over 15 years if I recall). When the one month was given back to the winter fishery, a sanctuary on the Savanne River was discussed but other regulations were implemented to offset the additional fishing pressure. Posession limits were dropped from 6 to 4 and a 13 inch minimum size was added. The lower Savanne River was never closed for open water angling.

Closing rivers has been used as a conservation method for years, just read the exceptions to the regulations in FMZ 6. The Upper Savanne and Little Savanne both have restrictions on them. Swamp River and several creeks on Shebandown has a restriction. The Weikwabinonaw River system has a restriction on it.

[AB 98]

I just have to ask if there has been any RECENT data collected on Lac that illustrates the population of walleyes is in decline?

NOSA and other like minded organizations are the 1st to call on management decisions to be made on sound scientific data.

If a sanctuary is warranted to enhance or protect the stock so be it. But please let it be for the right reasons, not an organization or public's perception of a problem that may or may not exist.

iceman

[Lundy 9]

What is the "RECENT data" collected when the NSSA decides to approach OMNR on certain years to have sections of urban rivers closed down? Is that not just "organization or public's perception of a problem that may or may not exist."??

Why do they close it? Because it's full of spawning fish. Same reason they've closed kashabowie river, swamp river, etc.

If the OMNR doesn't have or want to collect that data in a timely fashion, which obviously they have not up to this point, they need to look at it from a common sense point of view.

[fishman1 164]

The NMR has no finances to fuel such studies anymore. We have to rely on such clubs to help manage the resources.

The mnr practices crisis management.

[kaff 3]

The winter fishery was closed early (march 15th) quite a few years ago (over 15 years if I recall). When the one month was given back to the winter fishery, a sanctuary on the Savanne River was discussed but other regulations were implemented to offset the additional fishing pressure. Posession limits were dropped from 6 to 4 and a 13 inch minimum size was added. The lower Savanne River was never closed for open water angling.

Closing rivers has been used as a conservation method for years, just read the exceptions to the regulations in FMZ 6. The Upper Savanne and Little Savanne both have restrictions on them. Swamp River and several creeks on Shebandown has a restriction. The Weikwabinonaw River system has a restriction on it.

Posession limits were dropped from 6 pickeral to 4 pickeral, long before that happened at Lac! So don't think that the 1 month was given back due to limit change.

It was given back due to all the whinning from fishermen and women.

[Guest FreshwaterFisherman]

Close it or keep it open, doesn't matter, always gonna be unhappy people.

[RatherBeFishin 86]

What Fresh Said ^^^^

[mad scientist 140]

When my kid gets a scratch, she automatically wants to put on a bandaid, even if the scratch isn't actually bleeding. She thinks she knows what the solution to the problem is, and she won't be happy till she gets her way. She won't listen to me telling her that the bandaid isn't the right tool for the job, and she ends up crying more about not getting what she wants than the scratch actually warrants.

Just sayin'......

[Some Old Guy 968]

I don't think we have to resort to calling people whiners.

Many rivers that flow into lakes are closed to allow walleye to complete a full spawn run. If you take note in our immediate area many of these water sheds flow into superior. Those that do have been stocked with walleye. Primarily those lakes did not have walleye in them before. They were all stocked.

Lac is a northern watershed. Walleye are native there. The lake already had a sustaining population.

I like what sinker7 said. It would do no harm to make the river a sanctuary. It may cause concern to some anglers who like to fish the river in the event of an early ice out but the walleye season ends April 15th and making the river a sanctuary would take effect then until June 1st so fishing would still take place until then.

We all want to have better fishing. So what do we do? Icemans post regarding data is very valid. Is the fishery in decline? I kept hearing how slow fishing was then now it's picking up? Does that mean the fish were in different parts of the lake than where anglers were fishing and now that they are heading toward the river fishing has gotten better? I think that maybe the case.

Guys like domer seemed to do quite well this winter and they stated to get away from the pack.

I didn't fish lac at all this year. But if I did I would drink doseki. Haha

Roger

[mad scientist 140]

Roger (and others), apologies if the point of my previous point was unclear. I wasn't intending to imply that anyone was a whiner...my point was that people calling for a sanctuary are asking for the incorrect solution to a problem that probably isn't actually a problem.

First, let's be clear...the utility of a sanctuary is less that it protects the act of spawning, but rather that the fish are congregated and therefore more vulnerable to anglers. The real question is whether the prespawn open water fishing at the mouth of the river is causing a significant increase in the total annual walleye harvest from Lac, and even if it is, if that harvest rate is higher that the population can sustain. I can't speculate on the answer to that question, but MNR has programs in place that should be able to help generate the necessary data to provide the answer.

But if the data suggests that total harvest is too high, a sanctuary isn't necessarily the most appropriate solution. There is already a slot limit in place for the river, and regardless of your opinion of the slot, piling one regulation exception on top of another makes it pretty difficult to determine what works and what dosen't.

Point is, the days are past when MNR makes snap decisions to change regulations based solely on angler perceptions. Regulations are supposed to be based on science and vetted through a public consultation process.

[gsambray 172]

Closing the river why not. Starting a plan early before a noticeable decline in walleye would be a good thing in my opinion. Like the moose bs we are all dealing with. Let it go too long and end up loosing another past time we all enjoy

[kaff 3]

Fish are just as much at risk at prespawn as they are at post spawn.

Just wondering why the when fishery was shut down early, why it was given back, if it is so much a concern for post spawn.

Because too much stink(whinners) was being rasied! Oh also wasn't The NOSA group part of the reason that the 1 month shut down of Lac in March was given back.

Just saying.

[Some Old Guy 968]

Mad Scientist,

I totally get it. The river is already closed north of the hwy bridge and up the other portion of the river. I assume this is because of the launch at the hwy and the resorts along the river. People need access to the lake.

Data is required to find out if the fishery needs some sort of management. Slot sizes have been proven to work.

Maybe the harvest in the sawmill bay area is affecting walleye population. It's the easiest access point for winter fishing on that whole lake.

I don't know if there is a problem on Lac or not.

Roger

[fishman1 164]

I have fished lac for 45 years, for years we had pur 6 fish limit so early, the KB hotel wasn't open for a beer on the way home.

This was the norm, you rarely see that anymore. Anyone who says the fishing is as good as ever is only fooling themselves.

Now you hear these guys bragging about getting limits every weekend in their ice huts.

Yes going out Friday after work and coming home Sunday with 4 fish.

4 fish in 3 days, and they say this is good fishing?

[sinker7 114]

Case in point. Esnagami Lake north of Nakina. Very remote lake. One summer lodge on the lake and no cottages/camps. Limited access for recreational fishing. Sleds in the winter and portage only in the summer. The lake has a fantastic walleye population. The lake size is 69km2 versus Lac at 245km2. It has the same scenario. There is a major tributary in the back end of a large bay where a significant number of walleyes spawn. Fish start to stack up in this large bay(maybe half the size of Sawmill) mid-winter. The entire bay and river is a sanctuary starting March 1 every year. That would be like closing the Savanne and Sawmill at Sand Point. Fishing pressure on this lake is maybe 1% of what Lac receives. Nakina's population even if you include Geraldton is minimal compared to the fisherman in T-Bay fishing Lac. Yet a remote lake like this one has a major sanctuary in place to protect the walleyes.

[Travis Schallock 28]

Further to sinker7, around Nakina we also have sanctuaries on our closest Walleye lake Twin Lakes, with about 50 camps on it and 3 outfitters, and another of the closest major spawning rivers a little further north than Esnagami. I can speak for how much it has improved the Walleye on Twin Lakes. It had a sanctuary introduced about 15 years ago that encompassed the largest inflow and the entire bay where it entered, about 3 miles long by 3/4 mile wide. When I had first moved here about 12-13yrs ago you had a hard time catching 4 walleye over 12", or under 20", and very few overs. I ice fished it very steady before the sanctuary closed and it was very clearly working, as the fish size improved and the numbers improved even more every year. It used to be a place that everyone considered fished out, it is now one of the best walleye lakes around IMO. It is about 7 miles from town, and it takes me longer to go to the lake, get fishing, and get home than for 3 people to catch a limit, even mid afternoon most times. It used to be a place where if you went in the evening you would be lucky to catch a limit if you didn't mind keeping some smaller fish. Twin Lakes would also be the most pressured lake around, with the amount of camps and outfitters, but still nowhere near the pressure on Lac.

Sanctuaries work, there is no question. I think that the cost of losing an extra week or two of fishing, both sides of the regular open season in the spring when the walleye are congregated and vulnerable, is well worth it when you see how much it improves the fishery. Some people are not going to like it that they lose those weeks when the fish are easy pickings, but long term you gain great fishing all year round.

[Some Old Guy 968]

I'm just throwing this out there. Limits in minutes can only last for so long. Each walleye taken is one less walleye.

People keep saying that fish they take has no bearing on the population. No matter how you explain that to me or try to use science to back up a theory or try to say the population of what ever specie of fish can handle the harvest this always comes to me. 10-1=9, 9-1=8, 8-1=7 7-1=6, 6-1=5, 5-1=4, 4-1=3, 3-1=2, 2-1=1, 1-1=0.

Even though the fish spawn and reproduce it still takes time for them to grow to catchable sizes. Then we throw in bad year classes and predation. Then I didn't even factor in females laden with eggs! (you can chuck in that those that survived will spawn so the fishery can recover. But remember there isn't the numbers there were to spawn so the math will still apply, eventually)

I'm not saying that you shouldn't keep your limit. Not saying that at all. I'm just saying that populations on a hard hammered lake will have trouble recovering. Just like trees that get logged. Sure they'll grow back but the area has to be left alone.

But if you ask me....... We have all, as humans, tried to control mother nature. We never can or will. She does a fine job on her own. If something is amiss, we as humans must just leave it alone and it will fix itself.

I'm not even sure I make sense here or not! Ha Ha

Roger