Silver Minnow Bait Shop. 270 Mitchell Rd and NEW LOCATION: 418 Piccadilly Ave. Call 807-683-3778
Click here for our website.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
tracker

Draft Strategic Policy for Bait Management - Meeting in June

52 posts in this topic

As you are aware, the Draft Strategic Policy for Bait Management in Ontario is currently posted on the Environmental Registry (www.ebr.gov.on.ca) (#012-9791).  The comment period is open from February 27-June 27, 2017.  

As part of the consultation period we have scheduled a number of information sessions across the province to explain and clarify what is being proposed and answer any questions that stakeholders may have on the draft policy.  We will be having three types of sessions: 1) combined industry/stakeholder sessions; 2) Public open houses in the evenings; and 3) Indigenous sessions

 

The session dates and locations are as follows:

 

Stakeholder information sessions will be held in the following locations:

 

Location

Date

Time

Address

Sudbury

May 24

9am-12pm

Lexington Hotel,

50 Brady St., Sudbury

Timmins

May 25

2-5pm

Ramada Inn,

1800 Riverside Dr., Timmins

Kingston

May 29

2-5pm

Ramada Kingston Hotel,

33 Benson St., Kingston

London

June 8

2-5pm

Best Western Plus Lamplighter Inn,

591 Wellington Rd, South, London

Thunder Bay

June 13

9am-12pm

Valhalla Inn Hotel,

1 Valhalla Inn Road, Thunder Bay

Kenora

June 15

9am-12pm

Clarion Lakeside Inn,

470 1st Avenue South, Kenora

 

 

In addition to the stakeholder information sessions, MNRF will also be providing public open houses, at the locations and times outlined below.  These open house sessions will be relatively informal with MNRF staff being available for one-on-one discussions to answer any questions that individuals may have.

 

Public open houses will be held in the following locations:

 

Location

Date

Time

Location

Sudbury

May 23

6:30-9:00pm

Lexington Hotel,

50 Brady St., Sudbury

Timmins

May 25

6:30-9:00pm

Ramada Inn,

1800 Riverside Dr., Timmins

Kingston

May 29

6:30-9:00pm

Ramada Kingston Hotel,

33 Benson St., Kingston

London

June 8

6:30-9:00pm

Best Western Plus Lamplighter Inn,

591 Wellington Rd, South, London

Thunder Bay

June 12

6:30-9:00pm

Valhalla Inn Hotel,

1 Valhalla Inn Road, Thunder Bay

Kenora

June 15

6:30-9:00pm

Clarion Lakeside Inn,

470 1st Avenue South, Kenora

 

Once again we encourage all stakeholders to review this posting and either submit comments through the Environmental Registry (www.ebr.gov.on.ca; #012-9791).

If you have any questions regarding the proposed policy or the provincial bait policy review process, please contact Scott Gibson (Senior Fisheries Biologist) at bait@ontario.ca or at 705-755-5395.


Tracker (aka- Dennis)

Team NOSA Homepage

 

Born to Fish, Forced to Work

<')(((((>{

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a reminder of the public meeting on Monday June 12th.

 

Here are a few key sticking points from the Draft Policy:
• For purchased bait, anglers would be required to retain a receipt in their possession
for two weeks to demonstrate that the bait was purchased within the respective
BMZ within the previous two weeks.
• Anglers would be required to use or lawfully dispose of all commercially
harvested bait (including leeches) within two weeks of purchase.
• Possession of bait in wilderness, nature reserve, natural environment, waterway
and cultural heritage class provincial parks to be prohibited.
• Prohibitions on bait use and bait harvest in native Brook Trout lakes
• Resident anglers with a valid sport fishing licence will continue to be allowed
to harvest their own bait, but will be restricted in the degree to which self-harvested
bait can be moved.
• In northern Ontario, personally-harvested bait may be moved beyond the waterbody
where it was caught, provided that the angler possesses the appropriate
documentation allowing the overland transport and the bait stays within the BMZ
where it was harvested. Documentation may be in the form of either a personal
harvest licence or a personal log. (Note: Personal Harvest Licence and Personal
Log are not defined, or discussed. Obviously, more paperwork/ record keeping
and likely a new licence)
• Number of fish species that may be used as bait has been reduced.
Clearly this proposed bait policy is just another means to further restrict and
burden sport anglers in Northern Ontario and it could easily affect many small
businesses that rely on the bait industry to support sport angling and fishing
tourism in Northern Ontario.


Tracker (aka- Dennis)

Team NOSA Homepage

 

Born to Fish, Forced to Work

<')(((((>{

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, tracker said:


Clearly this proposed bait policy is just another means to further restrict and
burden sport anglers in Northern Ontario and it could easily affect many small
businesses that rely on the bait industry to support sport angling and fishing
tourism in Northern Ontario.

 

While I won't argue the point that the proposed changes to the bait policies will be more restrictive and will require changes to the way people do business, I think it's unfair to suggest that the intent of the changes is simply to make things complicated for people.  Or that Northern Ontario is being specifically targeted...the proposed rules are actually much more restrictive in Southern Ontario.


I'm going out to fish. - John 21:3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Bobber Down said:

Once again the North being punished for the actions and behavior of the masses in Southern Ontario. The initial intent of the changes may not have been intended to make things more complicated but certainly do. How can average consumers purchase bait in larger quantity (eg: lb of leeches or flat of worms) and be expected to use it all in 2 weeks. Not gonna be possible. Not in my world. If my buddy buys a lb of leeches or a flat of worms and gets a receipt how can I split the cost? I don't have a receipt for my share. What do I do? Lie to the mnr and set up some bs story that I trapped them on my own and set up some fictitious log when and where I trapped or picked them. How can bait fridges and bait vending machines operate. Place an "Official Receipt" on each bag or container when they don't actually have a sale and money in the till. Then the next day place another updated "Official Receipt" and then the next. This is just on the surface and visible. Once this is rammed down our throats whats next. Like tracker suggested a new licence? Most likely. No, I would argue that this is making things very complicated.

I couldn't agree with you more. I think it's also away to grab some cash , the way I read it is if you trap your own you'll need to keep a log and have a  permit so how much will that cost . You can be sure they won't let you make your own log so you'll be buying it from them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's just a precursor to a total live bait ban. One other thing of note and to keep an eye on is this group (a registered charity) who the Mnr has taken guidance from. WCS Canada - WCS Wildlife Conservation Society Canada - https://www.wcscanada.org/ Perhaps they won't be happy till no one goes into the forest or near water.


Tomorrow is never guaranteed to anyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Bobber Down said:

It's just a precursor to a total live bait ban. One other thing of note and to keep an eye on is this group (a registered charity) who the Mnr has taken guidance from. WCS Canada - WCS Wildlife Conservation Society Canada - https://www.wcscanada.org/ Perhaps they won't be happy till no one goes into the forest or near water.

If you look at the old posts about this I think you'll find I made mention of what anti group was behind the push for this , this only confirms my point .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Bobber Down said:

 (eg: lb of leeches or flat of worms)

 

Worms are not covered in the policy review...it only deals with baitfish and leeches


I'm going out to fish. - John 21:3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, arvey said:

If you look at the old posts about this I think you'll find I made mention of what anti group was behind the push for this , this only confirms my point .

I don't know much about WCS, but I read some materials on their website.  They're certainly an environmental organization, but I don't see anything in their materials that sound like they're anti fishing or hunting.

 

Nonetheless, it would be unfair to point out that the membership of the Bait Review Advisory Committee included two environmental organizations (WCS and Algonquin EcoWatch) without also noting that the membership included Trout Unlimited, OFAH, NOTO and six representatives from the commercial bait industry (including two from northwestern Ontario).


I'm going out to fish. - John 21:3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This seems like it will be rather bureaucratic... how exciting

 

WCS does a lot of really good research with Lake Sturgeon. Mostly looking at how dams effect them. I wouldn't pin this on them.

 

The two weeks storage for bait doesn't make sense to me, seems like it will make it more likely for people to dump their bait once they are done with it because of the  "Well I can only go fishing once every two weeks anyway" mentality. So I think that will just make people buy bait for a trip, then dump it at the end of the trip. Might also lead to people leaving traps in the water for unknown lengths of time until they need to go fishing again, and will just pull out the trap then and use anything that is still alive in there.

 

Also... leeches being included is pretty interesting. There is very little information currently on the species composition of leeches in Ontario. It would be nearly impossible to tell if a leech was native to a waterbody or not. Especially since ID'ing them is really hard. 

 

I see some of the merit in a lot of what they are trying to do, but it could really be streamlined so it isn't such a pain. I think the biggest problem with the current bait laws is education. No one wants to destroy habitats for fish, it's just that some people don't know any better, and ruin it for the rest of us. Especially since all you need for a fishing license is a few bucks and a form to fill out. So, there are bound to be people who think some invasive species is a fathead minnow and go bring 60 of them to their buddies cottage.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm case people didn't read it in the last thread in this topic, I was bored one day and did a quick search of what the live bait policies were everywhere else in Canada.  

 

In case you don't want to search for it the tl-dr summary is that even with these new rules fully implemented Ontario will still have the LEAST restriction on live bait use of any place in this country.

 

In fact the only places where live bait is even legal at all is basically Ontario or Manitoba and some places in Nova Scotia.  Nowhere else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Canada there is approx 3 million active anglers. Ontario has the highest group of active anglers, almost 1 million. Also 55% are between 45 to 65 years old and we vote. Anglers 65 years of age and over almost doubled in 2010 compared to 2005, increasing from 6% to 11% of the angling community and we vote. When the new survey results for 2015 comes out this year it is expected to be close to 20% and we vote. It was not long ago we voted and got rid of the long gun registry. Time to vote again before anymore roadblocks are put up.


Tomorrow is never guaranteed to anyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the comments made on here at different times sound more like antis than anglers or hunters maybe it's the way i'm reading them. Ontario is different than a lot of provinces in many ways , why shouldn't live bait be any different . When the government shut down the bear hunt did the other provinces , no  in fact they made money from stupidity of Ontario.

This could put some people out of business , they have no idea how this is going to work or the out come will be. Things like killing your bait or hanging on to a receipt is ludicrous and way past stupidity. 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About a third of the people in Canada live in Ontario so you would expect about a third of the anglers to be from Ontario too

 

There is nothing all that special about this province compared to Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Quebec etc. The ecology is all very similar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Myself and a buddy of mine went to the public meeting and i'm still shaking my head. This live bait thing will not promote fishing at in the least all it does is make it more complicated . You have fishing zones that was suppose to simplify things now you have bait zones and new regs. that are unenforceable . Lets face it the MNR can't enforce a 21 day camping rule let alone something like this. We all know the part about killing your bait after 2 wks . I asked why ? Here's the answer I got , to stop people from using the same receipt , okay, also to stop the black market from transporting bait to different zones. I asked what do you mean ? The answer I got was ridiculous , the MNR. person said they had reports of tanker trucks coming from Southern Ontario to Northern Ontario with bait to sell on the black market . mmm right . You can trap your own and not have to kill it so what's to stop you from buying your bait throw the receipt away and mark down in your log you trapped it. They also are holding a gun to your head as we talked they kept saying look at the red section on the map which is the areas that have no live bait is allowed. In other words it's this or that. It was the same when it came to the 2 wk. thing they kept saying other areas have 5 days or 1 wk. As we talked one of the MNR guys said the other side said we didn't go far enough ,who's the other side . The E.N.G.O. Perfect just like I said antis pushing the government.

This is nothing more than a way for antis to control how we live and dictate to us what we should and shouldn't be doing remember antis will stop at nothing to get what they want . They don't care who loses a job or how much money is lost in the economy as long as they prevail. We're going to have this shoved down are throats like it or not.     

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/15/2017 at 7:34 PM, arvey said:

 

This is nothing more than a way for antis to control how we live and dictate to us what we should and shouldn't be doing remember antis will stop at nothing to get what they want . They don't care who loses a job or how much money is lost in the economy as long as they prevail. We're going to have this shoved down are throats like it or not.     

 

I thought you had some valid points except for this.  Folks really got to stop thinking everything is a conspiracy.  If this was about the "antis", it would be a complete bait ban that was proposed.  


I'm going out to fish. - John 21:3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The complete bait ban is just around the corner. After people complain loud enough, fill court rooms fighting invalid, outdated or no bait receipt charges, have conservation officers waste their time in court defending the new policy or any other bait related issue, THEN the complete ban will happen. It just won't happen on the first strike.

 

When the time comes they will justify their "strategic" policy position/decision saying it costs too much to enforce or is not working as expected so better just do a complete ban. There would be too much of an outcry and political backlash if the ban was implemented in one shot. Better to do it slowly so as not to upset the voters to much. Let us get used to the idea. Feed us fake info and incomplete studies based on false facts and probabilities or projections undertaken by groups and scientists trying to justify their positions and jobs. The gov really needs to reinvest in its own ministry and not rely on outside groups with their own agenda's.

 

These same conservation groups/anti's are taking funding/money from environmental players such as Chevron, ExxonMobil, Monsanto, Shell, BP, Dow Chemical just to name a few. Private funding is dwindling from private sector donors as they realise these groups do not have the knowledge and cannot solve any of the world’s increasingly pressing problems whether man-made or not.

 

But, this is just the way business is done in the political arena. Folks really shouldn't stop thinking this is a conspiracy as mentioned above. It's all in the plan and up to everyone to question methods and outcomes. The devil is in the details and the details of any scheme can be opaque. Call or email your MP and Vote!https://www.wcscanada.org/News/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/8166/Ontario-Live-Bait-Fisheries-Whats-at-Stake.aspx


Tomorrow is never guaranteed to anyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-06-19 at 8:45 AM, Bobber Down said:

 ....undertaken by groups and scientists trying to justify their positions and jobs.

 

So to generalize we should ignore the opinion of anyone who's job or livelihood depends on the result of a government decision because they have a conflict of interest.  Is this a correct interpretation here of what you are saying?

 

If so, the I don't think you have thought this through because one logical follow on to that argument is that the opinion of bait harvesters and retailers on the question of bait management should be completely ignored because their livelihood depends on continuing to sell bait and therefore they have a conflict of interest on the question and therefore can't be trusted.

 

In other words what's good for the goose is good for the gander so to speak.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 "ignore the opinion of anyone" -  Not anyone, just conservation groups/anti's.

 

"the opinion of bait harvesters and retailers on the question of bait management" - Their opinions don't matter. The decision has already be made. The hoops just have to be jumped though.

 

"what's good for the goose is good for the gander" - When I get mounted I expect to get a spoonful of sugar. It helps make the medicine go down.

 

WCS Ultimate Mandate/Objective: Ban all live bait in Ontario.

 

They also want to take demerit points off your license for infractions: Implement a provincial demerit point system for infractions.

 

Why should we listen to anything this group/anti has to say. They are not our friends.

1 person likes this

Tomorrow is never guaranteed to anyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and the bait issue is not the only threat to our sport. This agenda from conservation groups/anti's is looming on the horizon.

 

"Body of evidence strongly suggests that fish are sentient and the evidence that they are capable of feeling pain in a manner similar to humans is gradually mounting."

1 person likes this

Tomorrow is never guaranteed to anyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paranoia is always a good way to increase donations.  ~s

 

You do realize that live bait bans are in effect in BC and Alberta. Anglers in these two provinces are doing pretty good and seem to understand the reason for the laws that forbid live bait. They are not just duped stooges who are blind to the political tactics of rabid conservationists.

 

Bobber Down.. I appreciate your candor and your concern for the whole angler culture. But when we attribute evil motives to people with a different agenda than ours and publicly smear them accusations of conspiracies and collusion with authorities, we have already lost the war.  

 

I suggest you sit down and befriend an "anti" and try to understand why they are entitled to have the opinions they do as fellow Canadians. Try to find some common ground. The world is not just black and white.  

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Bobber Down said:

This agenda from conservation groups/anti's is looming on the horizon.

 

I think it might be shortsighted to automatically lump "conservation" with "antis".  Consider how some pro-fishing and hunting organizations frame themselves:

 

Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters is the oldest and largest non-profit, non-government fish and wildlife conservation organization in Canada. - www.ofah.org

 

Trout Unlimited Canada is a registered Canadian not for profit organization. Our mission is to conserve, protect, and restore Canada’s freshwater ecosystems and their cold water resources for current and future generations. - www.tucanada.org

 

Ducks Unlimited: Delivering Continental Conservation for Wetlands and Waterfowl - http://www.ducks.org/conservation/where-ducks-unlimited-works

 

So, as I've said before, I'd never heard of the Wildlife Conservation Society before this bait review discussion began.  But rather than make assumptions about their motives, I took some time to read their materials.  What I learned is that WCS Canada is a national branch of an international organization.  The international organization does lobby against hunting...but their focus is on illegal hunting of the world's critically imperiled species - elephants, tigers, mountain gorillas, etc.  Personally, I get as disgusted about people in Africa killing an elephant for its ivory as I do about somebody illegally killing a black bear for its gall bladder in Ontario.  I don`t think that makes them (or me) anti-hunting.  

 

I can`t find anything on the WCS Canada site about hunting or fishing.  Their 2016 Annual report puts their national focus on three large mammalian species at risk: cougars, caribou and polar bears (none of which you can legally hunt in Ontario anyway), as well as bats, which are being decimated by the white-nose syndrome fungus.  The argument that this is an "anti" group just doesn't hold up.


I'm going out to fish. - John 21:3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was not lumping all conservation groups as anti. OFAH does not want to ban the use of live bait in Ontario. WCS does. Trout Unlimited does not want to ban the use of live bait in Ontario. WCS does. Ducks Unlimited does not want to ban the use of live bait in Ontario. WCS does. I consider any conservation/environmental group or individual to be anti if their agenda, intentions or actions contribute to the closure, cancellation or restriction of any part of the sport of fishing no matter which way they frame it or come at the issue.

 

Their own literature (and there is a lot to read) going back years state that people will be hurt economically if their recommendations are implemented but their objective is worth the cost. And it's not only the fishing industry.

 

Again, if any conservation group states as did WCS (link in a previous post) that they want to Ban the use of all live bait in Ontario they are Anti fishing and anti fishermen and women IMO. Not many, conservation groups (except PETA) would come out and outright publicly say they are anti fishing or anti hunting.

 

As for the anti hunting part........I don't hunt. I will leave that to hunters to comment on but I do believe hunters have the right to hunt.


Tomorrow is never guaranteed to anyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The WCS Canada article/position statement does make a recommendation to the MNRF  (in their role as a member of the Bait Review Advisory Group) to ban all live bait in Ontario, but the full text of the recommendation includes context:

 

Ban all live bait in Ontario in order to prevent the spread of invasive species and disease. 

 

They then follow with a second recommendation:

 

If live bait is not banned, then ecological risks should be minimized through the following measures:

  • Ban the movement of bait across watersheds 
  • Require bait testing and develop a fish health monitoring program 
  • Ban live bait harvest, storage, and use in species-at-risk habitats and protected areas

They seem to be providing a pretty balanced argument...given a problem (live baitfish spread disease and invasive species), the most foolproof and straightforward approach is a total ban on live bait. I don't disagree with that logic at all.  But they recognize that an outright ban isn't an option, so they provide more realistic recommendations.  Compromise is a perfectly valid approach to conflict resolution.


I'm going out to fish. - John 21:3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 "the most foolproof and straightforward approach is a total ban on live bait. I don't disagree with that logic at all" - Thank you for confirming that you are an anti.

 

"But they recognize that an outright ban isn't an option" - you/they understand the current political climate does not allow for their total live bait ban. They have many webs world wide and this is just one small segment. Baby steps.

 

"Compromise is a perfectly valid approach to conflict resolution" - to who you.  Why should we as a fishing community have to compromise on a conflict brought upon us by this groups "realistic" recommendations? What studies have they completed since 2013 that confirm positive results of said recommendations. They have no way of knowing if anything they recommend will work. Just a total experiment and the fishing industry has to suffer for it. Who are they to bring conflict into our way of life. Who are they to recommend that the government Implement a provincial demerit point system for infractions. My god their trying to influence the justice/court system.

 

They understand their views are not and will not be popular within the fishing industry/community but will most likely continue to push their agenda of a total live bait ban now that they have their foot in the door, so to speak, as they wait for a more favourable political climate or sympathetic ear.

 

What will be their recommendation when the live baitfish spread disease and invasive species problem is not solved?

 


Tomorrow is never guaranteed to anyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • TBF ADVERTISERS

    Advertisers

  • Donate to T.B.F.

    Help me out here folks! All donations go back into upgrading the site!


    5% of donation goal reached.
    Donate Sidebar by DevFuse
  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.