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2112

NSSA dinner pamphlet

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2112

So I went to the NSSA dinner tonight, was a lot fun, food was great and I won a prize. I had a chance to read the literature they provided and there was a particular article that really popped out as what i think is backwards thinking in terms of conservation. They argue that the steelhead numbers are down in Black Bay and truthfully i have no clue what their stock is actually like. Regardless, steelhead are a pacific salmon that were introduced and would have never naturally made it here with out our help. They argue that predatory fish such as walleye, pike and small mouth bass (native to superior) have bounced back and are killing all the young fish and therefore not returning for multiple spawns. Their solution is to have the 26.5" limit applied to rainbow trout in all the tributaries (i dont know if they also wanted to include superior). Now, in my opinion, this is backwards. Why are an introduced species recieving a special condition? Rainbow trout are delicious, i do not catch them often but if i did your damn right im taking it home. Even a 14 incher. If our native fish are thriving, why would we want another ferocious predator competing with them? Im not saying change the current 1 fish limit or anything, but how often do you really catch a steelhead greater than 26.5? Probably not very often. At least i do not. Essentially they are lobbying for a catch and release rainbow fishery. So, apparently to keep an "elite" style of fishing alive, we will no longer be able to enjoy their tasty flesh. 

 

BUT BUT BUT! 

 

All this money the NSSA puts in to rehabilition benefits the native fish too! And dont get me wrong, thats awesome. They do a great job, im not here to "bash" these guys, but at the end of the day BUTs are only good for one thing... Pooping

 

Why arent people as enthusiastic about native fish. Nuts to rainbows, what about sturgeon? What about the "collapse" of the walleye in Black Sturgeon (no comment). Why arent we focusing on our native specs! NSSA holds the biggest fundraiser in Thunder Bay for a fish that shouldnt be here. Again... I know it helps.. Blah blah... Thats not the point. Because lord knows Lake Superior is NO where near its original form. Smelt alone drastically changed the food chain forever. My issue is a size restriction. Anyways, this article really popped out at me. Maybe im wrong and eventually an eagle would have crapped an immaculately conceived population of fertalized rainbow eggs. With the coming steelhead season maybe we should instead get pumped about another fish. I for one am pumped about the common shiner for the month of april.

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

simpsons_food_chain_by_spaceplatypus.jpg

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smokerscully1

Wouldn’t it make more sense to close the streams when rainbow are spawning? Years ago the MNR proposed that.

 

me—I’m a big believer in catch and keep

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AB

2112,

 

 Please don't misunderstand me, I eat Steelhead to! In your post above, you wrote "What about the "collapse" of the walleye in Black Sturgeon (no comment). "  MNRF employees have gotten into trouble voicing their position on this one and others in the past, hence the silence.

 

The Black Bay walleye fishery has re-bounded incredibly over the last few years. The black bay walleye are colonizing new rivers in the Black Bay area where they haven't been seen in many many years. 

 

Ask the folks ice fishing for perch about the number of walleye encountered over the last few years and what the trend is - we are getting more and more all over the bay, in numbers and sizes we haven't seen before. These Black Bay fish are spreading out of Black Bay over into Thunder Bay and Nipigon Bay. They have been tracked from the lower basin of Black Bay into Thunder Bay - swimming the distance in one day.

 

When angling for Bass in the lower basin it is not uncommon to hook up with walleyes where we never used to .

 

Why - harvest restrictions! Harvest restrictions exist for walleye in  the Black Bay Basin below Bent Island. Licensed anglers can't even fish for them in the Black Sturgeon River below the first dam. 

 

The number of walleyes is having an impact on a number of species in Black Bay, especially their prey species.  Perch, and juvenile Steelhead being a couple of them.

 

The concept of placing a minimum harvest size on Steelhead is based on a proven management model for Lake Superior where harvest of maiden spawners (1st timers) is reduced.  These fish are the ones that are less than 27 inches. They are also the ones most likely caught by anglers. 

 

The idea of putting harvest restrictions on Black Bay tributaries is to try and let the reduced numbers of fish recover. Its worked on walleyes and should be supported for steelhead.

 

Now I would also like to point out that there have been Steelhead in Lake Superior for over 100yrs. With an average age at maturity being 5 yrs, that's 20 generations.....They aren't exotic species anymore.....That would be like saying none of us are Canadians because our families have only been in this country for the last 200 yrs, roughly 8 generations.

 

The management principle is simple, if you want to catch some fish - don't eat them all! Especially the last breeding pairs.

 

With that said, I'm going to go put the vexilar on the charger for one more ice expedition and hopefully a fish fry on Monday!

 

Tight lines!

 

AB

 

 

 

 

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Foozer

I'd like to reply, but without access to a keyboard, my thoughts are too many for a mobile device.

 

Hopefully I remember to post something Monday. 


Since we can not call female anglers "fisherman" We should just call 'em hookers.....

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Foozer

Finally, access to a keyboard….

The NSSA has an annual project that collects data on steelhead populations in a number of Lake Superior’s waters, including Thunder Bay, Black Bay, and Nipigon Bay.  These annual population estimates have been going on for a number of years and the trends in data can be analysed.  The reports are available from their website and reviewing the numbers from Black Bay has shown a decease of nearly 85% of the population.  There is a stream that feeds into Black Bay which is on private property which limits the amount of fish harvested by anglers to next to nothing and the population of that stream has dropped from an estimated 2000 fish a few years ago to around 300.  There’s the 85% decrease.   I fish a number of creeks that feed Black Bay and I, personally, have gone from providing the project with 50+ samples a year to nearly none.  The fish just aren’t there anymore.

It is true steelhead were introduced….over 150 years ago.  In that time they have spread from the few streams they were originally planted in, to almost all tributaries and have become, not only naturalized, but (so I’ve been told by a retired MNR biologist) the population has become genetically unique and self-sustaining within each creek, river, or stream they inhabit. 

Not that long ago, commercial fishing in Black Bay was ended.  The walleye, pike, bass, and perch have been increasing in number each year.  There simply isn’t the room for all those predators in the same area.  I’ve been enjoying the increase in perch there too. Don’t get me wrong about that (check the gallery).  I like getting the wife and kids out there for perch fishing, but is it worth losing a naturalized self-sustaining unique fishery like these steelhead, for just another place to go for perch and walleye? 

I don’t fish the big lake often, and there are literally hundreds of other places I’d rather go to catch pike, perch, and walleye and would rather see Black Bay managed to support the unique fishery that is only available on our north shore.  That’s just my opinion.

The one over 26.5” has proven to be a terrific management tool.  Look at how the McIntyre and Neebing came back from what they were.  The total opposite of the trend in Black Bay.  And I was one of the people that originally thought the size restriction was just an arbitrary number chosen to punish sport fishermen. 

But then I found out why that number was chosen and speaks to how often you catch a 26.5” fish.  Once hatched, those fish spend anywhere from 1-3 years in the stream before heading back to Superior.  Those same fish spend another 1-3 years in the lake before reaching maturity.  This information is revealed in the samples the NSSA pays to have analyzed for this project and shows the life cycles of the young fish.  So you will have some fish that are 5-6 years old before their first time spawning.  To me, I think it’s a great way to manage the population by giving each fish in the population the opportunity to spawn at least once before being harvested.

Now that 85% of the population has already been lost in Black Bay, I would think it’s a great conservation method to allow the few remaining fish some protection in order to have the opportunity to spawn at least once. 

The one over rule applied to the Neebing and McIntyre does not apply to Superior so if you are out trolling for lakers or salmon and hook into that 14’ rainbow, you are within your privilege to keep it.  I might too.  The restrictions currently apply only to those rivers, so I would lobby that only the tributaries in Black Bay be subject to those rules.  If you hook a rainbow on the lake you should be able to keep it.  Regardless of size.  But that's just my opinion.  Who knows if this regulation will ever com into effect.  As far as I know, its just a suggestion to bring forward to afford a struggling population in decline a chance to survive.

The NSSA mandate is for all cold water fisheries including salmon and brook trout.  Brook trout already have an over 22" restriction and I have noticed a real decline in the number of Black Bay brook trout in the streams I fish.  They’re gone too.  The salmon numbers in the Wolf, for my observation, is the same.  The numbers of these cold water fish have all declined.  It would be logical to conclude the explosion of perch, and the increase in pike and walleye, are contributing to the decline of these other fish as well.  Not enough room for all of them.

Again, I would rather fish pike and walleye somewhere else and enjoy the opportunity to catch a chinook from the Wolf, or steelehead from Coldwater Creek, rather than just more perch in Black Bay.  But, that’s just my opinion.

Also, in my opinion, the NSSA dinner was a great event! I was there too. It was me and wifey’s first time at the dinner.  I have heard that in a couple weeks the NOSA dinner event will be happening too, but after scoring a couple items in the silent auction and the draw for the Sage fly rod, I have enough new toys to keep me busy for a while.

Congrats on your win.

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Since we can not call female anglers "fisherman" We should just call 'em hookers.....

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2112

So, I understand what everyone is saying about the 26.5" working in the past as a conservation model for past NATIVE fish species. So I guess my next question is, has there been any research on fry survival and successful recruitment? Its easy to study the fish coming in, but maybe some of our issues lye in the status of our rivers. Look at the west coast, massive declines in NATURAL stocks of all salmonoid species all the way down bc, and into Oregon. There are a number of reasons this has happened but the biggest reason are the hydrodams that were put in place by the army corps back in thd 50s. Salmon species are demolished in the situation above the dam because the reservoir creates slower water movement and the fry are picked off. Also, having to swim in the slow water decreases their energy needed to evade predator pressure. In the case of specs, the increased temp of water held in reservoirs can decrease egg and sperm development. In the case of specs I do believe if the fish spends more than 24 hours in water above 18c, eggs are spermazoa are done for that season(probably don't reach that here!). Also, situation of REDD sites (spawning beds) are silted up. Or the eggs can get silted over. Black sturgeon is dammed up with not much river for the fish to play in. Wolf has an impassable waterfall early in its run. Increase predation once they hit the lake all tired from growing up in crappy environments. This fish was not supposed to be here. It can't compete with our development and the renaissance of the true black bay fishery. The benefits of having a rainbow population are solely based on our wants (not needs) as fisherman. I am still very much on the side of the 26.5 model will not work for rainbow trout/steelhead. I think putting more effort in educating children about conservation, riparian restoration and pollution (cigarette butts are litter) and giving some of these streams a little help with some engineering (ya I know how costly that it) is far more important then having people lose interest in steelhead because it not worth the gas and time to catch something you cant put in your plate. 

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arvey
45 minutes ago, 2112 said:

So, I understand what everyone is saying about the 26.5" working in the past as a conservation model for past NATIVE fish species. So I guess my next question is, has there been any research on fry survival and successful recruitment? Its easy to study the fish coming in, but maybe some of our issues lye in the status of our rivers. Look at the west coast, massive declines in NATURAL stocks of all salmonoid species all the way down bc, and into Oregon. There are a number of reasons this has happened but the biggest reason are the hydrodams that were put in place by the army corps back in thd 50s. Salmon species are demolished in the situation above the dam because the reservoir creates slower water movement and the fry are picked off. Also, having to swim in the slow water decreases their energy needed to evade predator pressure. In the case of specs, the increased temp of water held in reservoirs can decrease egg and sperm development. In the case of specs I do believe if the fish spends more than 24 hours in water above 18c, eggs are spermazoa are done for that season(probably don't reach that here!). Also, situation of REDD sites (spawning beds) are silted up. Or the eggs can get silted over. Black sturgeon is dammed up with not much river for the fish to play in. Wolf has an impassable waterfall early in its run. Increase predation once they hit the lake all tired from growing up in crappy environments. This fish was not supposed to be here. It can't compete with our development and the renaissance of the true black bay fishery. The benefits of having a rainbow population are solely based on our wants (not needs) as fisherman. I am still very much on the side of the 26.5 model will not work for rainbow trout/steelhead. I think putting more effort in educating children about conservation, riparian restoration and pollution (cigarette butts are litter) and giving some of these streams a little help with some engineering (ya I know how costly that it) is far more important then having people lose interest in steelhead because it not worth the gas and time to catch something you cant put in your plate. 

Try and get a hold of this book , Black Bay & Black Sturgeon River . Native Fisheries Rehabilitation. This should give you your answers . 

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Kritter

Two things I am not understanding. People are claiming that steelhead are naturalized to me that's what people will claim just before they become native fish. So I ask if these fish are "naturalized" why do they require so much assistance? Size limits, sudden portions of streams closed and constant sampling. To me naturalized means they have fit into their environment and can self sustain themselves. Key focus on the word SELF. My second question is walleye were introduced above the Lake Superior watershed where they have "naturalized". They are self sustaining. TOTALLY SELF SUSTAINING! No issues. Walleye up there are gifted the luxury of a closed period so they can reproduce. So my question is, why aren't steelhead gifted this same opportunity?

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AB

Kritter,

 

Good question!

 

Do some research on the history of angling for Steelhead and angling for other salmonids. They are traditionally fished for as adults as they return to their natal waters....

 

In southern Ontario, due to the shear number of anglers they have closed seasons for trout. We are fortunate up here not to be affected by season closures. And we want it to stay that way!  The key is encouraging the education of anglers about the unique opportunity we can enjoy each spring.

 

I encourage you to do some more research into great lakes steelhead in this and other areas to understand how lucky we have it on the north shore.

 

AB

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Kritter

In Canada, every single specie across the board traditionally used to be harvested during their spawn. That had to stop. For most anyways. Species that were high risk, there was a closure. So I ask a couple of questions here and I get told to do some research. Asking questions is research. Does anyone know why steelhead here aren't allowed a closed portion of the season to spawn?

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arvey
19 minutes ago, Kritter said:

In Canada, every single specie across the board traditionally used to be harvested during their spawn. That had to stop. For most anyways. Species that were high risk, there was a closure. So I ask a couple of questions here and I get told to do some research. Asking questions is research. Does anyone know why steelhead here aren't allowed a closed portion of the season to spawn?

At one time many yrs. ago maybe the 60's the opening of steelhead was May 1st. Why and when that changed I do not know. 

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Foozer
3 hours ago, Kritter said:

In Canada, every single specie across the board traditionally used to be harvested during their spawn. That had to stop. For most anyways. Species that were high risk, there was a closure. So I ask a couple of questions here and I get told to do some research. Asking questions is research. Does anyone know why steelhead here aren't allowed a closed portion of the season to spawn?

 

Asking questions on a public forum will get you some answers, and a whole lotta opinions.

 

I'm of the opinion that walleye are targeted all year long.  For 47 weeks a year they are pulled from where ever possible.  The closure for the spawn is the only time they can't be harvested (mostly... wink, wink)

 

Steelelhead, however, are rarely targeted intentionally at any point of the year and are usually incidental catches when on Superior for salmon or lake trout.   Many people never fish Superior for anything.  I don't know anyone with the equipment to fish it regularly during open water season.   The only time the steelhead fishery sees any pressure is for the relatively short spawning run and your possession limit is only one anyway.

 

But that's just my 2 cents. 

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Since we can not call female anglers "fisherman" We should just call 'em hookers.....

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