I need Help. Golden Retriever from hell.

[Some Old Guy 968]

I have a female Retriever and I cannot contain this dog. Chews through her rope. She can climb a 6 foot high chain link fence. I just bought a portable 6 foot high chain link pen that I will be putting a roof on so she can't get out. But this morning I got up and saw that she dug a hole through frozen ground alongside of my house. I'm freaking out. No matter what I do this thing is one step ahead of me!

What do I do? Put some peanut butter at the end of the 12 gauge? No I wouldn't do that but I'm at my wits end.

Roger

[wampa 18]

I have a female Retriever and I cannot contain this dog. Chews through her rope. She can climb a 6 foot high chain link fence. I just bought a portable 6 foot high chain link pen that I will be putting a roof on so she can't get out. But this morning I got up and saw that she dug a hole through frozen ground alongside of my house. I'm freaking out. No matter what I do this thing is one step ahead of me!

What do I do? Put some peanut butter at the end of the 12 gauge? No I wouldn't do that but I'm at my wits end.

Roger

Electronic training collar. Not the cheap ones either as they do not control the amount of juice. Try Dogtra (this is what I have), or any of the other brands from Cabelas. The electric collar is a great tool when used correctly (for training, not punishment), and will straighten any dog out. Send me an email if you want to talk more about these or if you need specific tips.

[Guest Patch]

This probably sounds overly simple and I feel sorta silly for even mentioning it but if she chews through rope, how about using a chain?

[Guest TerryK]

She needs obedience training Rog, and if she's doing this when you are gone, I'll bet she has some separation anxiety. It also sounds like she thinks she is the alpha female and she needs to be shown her place in the pack hierarchy.

[wampa 18]

Zap!!!!!!

[Some Old Guy 968]

I'm leaning towards the electric collar. The reason I don't use a chain is because where I have to put her she would do a lot of damage with it. And as for being the Alpha female, that's my wife's job! Ha Ha.

The dog isn't the alpha female. As soon as your eyes are off of her she starts.

Roger

[Guest TerryK]

I'm leaning towards the electric collar. The reason I don't use a chain is because where I have to put her she would do a lot of damage with it. And as for being the Alpha female, that's my wife's job! Ha Ha.

The dog isn't the alpha female. As soon as your eyes are off of her she starts.

Roger

That's what she's doing, testing your authority and she'll continue to do it until she's put in her place.

For the record, I don't believe in using shock collars. Imo, they are unnecessary and are painful for dogs.

[Some Old Guy 968]

Put in her place? What do I have to do beat the crap outta her?

Roger

[Buck 120 32]

Definitely needs obedience training. I would recommend K9 studios. The other thing I am sure you know but will mention just in case, that breed of dog needs LOTS of exercise otherwise they will crawl the walls.

[uncle 19]

I have a female Retriever and I cannot contain this dog. Chews through her rope. She can climb a 6 foot high chain link fence. I just bought a portable 6 foot high chain link pen that I will be putting a roof on so she can't get out. But this morning I got up and saw that she dug a hole through frozen ground alongside of my house. I'm freaking out. No matter what I do this thing is one step ahead of me!

What do I do? Put some peanut butter at the end of the 12 gauge? No I wouldn't do that but I'm at my wits end.

Roger

Hmmm. Where can I get one of those female retrievers?

[Some Old Guy 968]

Hmmmmm I just might know where. For the low low low price of me giving you one hundred dollars! Ha Ha

Roger

[Guest TerryK]

Rog, I'm not an expert by any stretch, but I've had many dogs that I have trained myself and all of them are different but one thing that all dogs need to understand is who is boss. They will constantly test you throughout their lives because they are pack animals and need to know their place in the hierarchy. Obedience training is the best alternative but I just studied obedience techniques and did it myself. The main thing is to be consistent. Once you train your dog not to do something, don't let her get away with it even once. She'll try, guaranteed. One thing you should never do is hit a dog. She may back down to you but if someone else tries it she may try and retaliate. It's been proven that hitting a dog makes them more aggressive.

Do an online search for dog training tips or try some dog forums and ask for advice. There are some good ones out there. this one is pretty good with lots of helpful members.

dog forum.org

[wampa 18]

Electronic collars are only painful to the dog if the owner is not using it correctly. Low level stimulation is far the fastest and most effective training technique in use today. I have trained/helped train a pile of hunting dogs, a few of which have gone on to win/place in national field trial events with a friend of mine. The old method of beating the crap out of your dog til he listens to you has gone the way of the dodo. Some of the other methods work some of the time, but the collar works all the time. If you want to try mine out for a bit, let me know Roger and I'll lend it too you.

[Guest Wes]

I am going to disagree on the collar. I had 2. The first one would shock her for shaking her head. Not really a punishable offence in my opinion. I returned that one immediatly and bought a remote control unit. Sure that was fun for me for the first while but again she was getting zapped because I was bored not because she was bad. hahaha No really I would have had to catch her in the act in order for her to get punished, 'God complex' training. It never worked. I had the intensity turned up enough to where I can she she was miffed by it but not strong enough to where she would yelp. And yes I tried the thing on my leg. Holy Crap! I bites hard. Maybe I was too impatient with this method but I didn't like it.

Terry is hitting on something there. I too have made it known to my dog that I am pack leader. One of the biggest things I did to break her spirit was not let her think she owns the place. I enter all doors before her. She is to sit and wait to be invited in to where ever it is I am. Then she started waiting for me but would rush in before my wife. I would make the dog go back and sit and wait until my wife entered and I invited the dog in. When we walk she is not to leave our side unless I tell her to GO. She is not 100% but she is much better. She is controlable to the point where I can call her back from a skunk, in mid stride. I was so proud of her. She was within 4 feet of the business end and I got her turned around and she came back without incident. I think the skunk was out of ammo though because she should have been sprayed at that distance. This type of training worked for my friends as well. When they are around my dog, my dog is still low man on the pole. Of course most of my friends need some training of their own, but thats another thread.

[Guest aanii84]

I would go with the electric collar. But like mentioned before, you have to get a quality one, which means $$. Dogtra sells good products. Theres one model that is not as expensive as the top end ones but works great. The name escapes me right now. I'll get in contact with a man whom i know is an expert and find it out for you, than you can research a little.

[Guest TerryK]

Right on Wes. Training can be done without corporal punishment! lol Shock collars and beatings are just not necessary. All that is needed is patience and a little knowledge.

It's pretty cool when your dog responds to your safety command isn't it? Last summer I called my dog Rosie off a porcupine about 10 feet short and she was in full on attack mode lol. And just today out walking the trails she ran ahead around a corner. I heard voices so I yelled STOP and ran around the corner and there she was, sitting down in the middle of the trail facing 2 people and their dog about 50 feet away. She heard me and stopped dead, even though there was another dog there. Pretty proud for sure.

[Guest stumped]

Okay, I have to jump in here. My question first off is how much exercise is she getting. This is a retriever we are talking about and they require to be worked. Not just a little 20 minute walk... we are talking about a good 45 min to an hour hard walk/run twice a day. They are smart dogs and need to be kept busy. Once you have taken some of the energy out of her, she will be easier to work with. It is hard to work with a dog that is in an excited mood.

I have been watching on a lot of the show "The Dog Whisperer" on the Geography Channel on satellite. He is amazing. you can also do a search for his website. Cesar Milan, he is amazing when it comes to working with dogs.

I do not believe in the shock collar, it is not a natural way of training and if the person who is using it does not understand it, they could make the animal worse. Obedience training is a very good idea, as well as making sure the dog realizes it is part of a pack and not the leader. You are also not the leader... your family is the leader as a whole and your dog needs to realize this. By combining all of this together with time, patience and effort you can have an amazing dog... but I would start off with tiring her out at least once a day if not twice.

Just my two cents worth

Vera

[Guest Dog in the boat]

I have a female Retriever and I cannot contain this dog. Chews through her rope. She can climb a 6 foot high chain link fence. I just bought a portable 6 foot high chain link pen that I will be putting a roof on so she can't get out. But this morning I got up and saw that she dug a hole through frozen ground alongside of my house. I'm freaking out. No matter what I do this thing is one step ahead of me!

What do I do? Put some peanut butter at the end of the 12 gauge? No I wouldn't do that but I'm at my wits end.

Roger

Roger

I have a 9 year old female golden and she still thinks she's 6 months, best friend I will ever have!

You'll see her in the boat with me at Shebandewan "at all times".

And that is my point...The females want their male owners attention all the time, period.

If you don't attend to them, you get what you are getting.

Make every second of your time with her valuable to her...make her work...Fetch,Tug,Track for you in the yard...

Take her to the tree farm on the 25th side road, best Place I know, but she needs to release her energy

and you are the only one that can do that for her...She needs to run, Retreivers are High Maintenance!

Keeping her in a small pen is just wrong and you know it( if she was not brought up that way from a pup)...

Retreivers are the most sociable of all dogs.

You may have to come to grips with that...She is telling you that you are neglecting her.

But "make her work" and she will respect her time with you, her Dominant Dad...Right?

She shouldn't chew, but she will always carry something in her mouth...Retreivers are bread for that.

If she does chew, a spray bottle with lemon juice and water is a good training facility, but you will have to be diligent.

Usually she should learn on the third lesson, if not mix-up your routine (spray, verbal comand, take away item, give her something she can chew, THEN PRAISE) "ABSOLUTELY NO BONES- YOU WILL KILL HER.

If she is digging holes, "verbally discipline her" then put her "turds" in the hole and cover it up and repeat...

This works because her nose is her "best asset" and she will not dig where she "lays her cables"...and she will learn with time.

If she's climbing out of the pen, make sure it's not for another reason...cats,squirrels,kids,fear of something near by...

Good luck

Hopefully this Helps the 2 of you teach each other about each other.

Email me if you like.

[wampa 18]

First of all, if you think that using an electronic collar is cruel, you have never used one of the new, more expensive types (that have more than one setting, allowing you to control the amount of stimulation), or you are using it wrong. This type of training is proven and the dogs are happy to go out to the yard or bush to train when the collar is on. It is not a punishment tool and if you are using it in this way, then you need some training yourself. This is an article from GunDog Magazine that might explain some of the aspects of this training method for you.

Enjoy

Training with Electronic Equipment

Robert Andrysco, PhD

Pet Behavior Specialist, Author

The use of an electronic training product can make training more complicated for the dog trainer, the owner, and the dog. However, like any of the other training methodologies, electronic training can be successful, if it is approached properly.

Situations in which electronic training equipment can be helpful

There are a number of situations in which electronic training equipment can augment the training process, including:

A partial level of success has been achieved with another training product or technique.

The difficulty of consistent correction is understood, and the effectiveness of these devices in a variety of situations is recognized.

A dog trainer recommends electronic training and can effectively teach the methodology.

Once people become familiar with electronic training products and use them properly, they find the methodology is proven, efficient, economical, and ethical.

The type of training in which an electronic aid is used is critically important, for it will influence the type of product and methods used. Is the equipment being used to teach a new obedience command, correct some common misbehavior, or is it being used to reinforce another electronic training methodology?

Factors affecting success

Before an electronic training tool is used, it is strongly suggested that the entire training situation be re-examined. There are three major considerations in this re-evaluation:

Does the owner know what he is doing, does he understand the training process, and can he apply proper methodology to a specific situation?

Is the owner training the dog properly, does he have a plan for this specific misbehavior, and is he executing that plan appropriately and correctly?

Is the dog trainable? Is the dog in question stubborn, set in his ways, or unintelligent?

(I believe that all dogs are trainable. Dogs that seem stubborn, or unintelligent, have simply not been trained properly, consistently, or effectively.)

Of these factors, the first two are most important. If training is not successful, in most cases it is because owner education, preparedness, consistency or commitment is lacking. This may be difficult for some owners to accept, but remember that we have invited dogs into our environment. It is our responsibility to teach them in ways they can understand. This is incredibly important, because if an owner has not taken the time, or applied the appropriate techniques properly and consistently, training with an electronic product will not make a difference. It will only confuse even the smartest dog.

There are certain signals that suggest a dog has not been properly trained. In these instances a dog may:

Resist when his owner attempts to place a collar around his neck.

Withstand correction, of any type, in the presence of certain distractions.

Control his owner by acting timid or by ignoring his owner.

Panic when he senses a warning.

Attempt to escape when receiving a correction.

Do anything except the behavior necessary to avoid the correction.

Education is the key. If an owner takes the time to understand electronic training - why it works, how it works, how to apply the appropriate techniques - it can be a beneficial tool.

Electronic training requires knowledge and skill

Electronic training is not for everyone. From a training standpoint, it is definitely more sophisticated, with many more variables. The first of these variables is the dog himself. The need for electronic training usually indicates that a dog has multiple behavioral or training problems. Further, it usually denotes some difficulty correcting those behaviors.

In these cases, it is recommended that an owner approach electronic training only after first consulting, or retaining, a dog trainer who has practical experience with such tools. For those owners who attempt to use electronic training equipment on their own, buy a product which supplies quality educational materials and customer service.

Why the concern for proper education? Because of the largest variable in the equation - the owner. Let us face it, humans are very unpredictable, as far as dogs are concerned. The response of most owners to the need for correction varies widely, depending on the dog, the training, the situation at hand, and even the mood they happen to be in at the time. This is not conducive to effective training - of any kind.

In most cases, a dog exhibits a behavior in response to some stimulus or distraction. Owners must be careful not to create yet another, different misbehavior by misapplying the correction, or applying it at the wrong time. And, for the safety of the dog, it is unnecessary to correct it for every little thing. Owners must be selective to avoid canine confusion. With electronic training, there is a much greater chance of unknowingly teaching a dog the wrong thing. But when applied properly, electronic training can be done successfully. To help understand this, let us examine how people respond to their dog without electronics.

Dog owners respond to their dog in any number of different ways. They may reward their dog by petting, talking, providing food or treats, playing, or letting them sleep on the bed. The list is as long as there are owners on it. These same owners also correct in various ways, including yelling, hitting, throwing things, the use of a chain link training collar, ignoring their dog, not providing food or treats, or isolation in a room, crate, or kennel. This does not imply that all of these forms of reward and correction are acceptable. Only that they are multiple, and that training can be successful under some of these circumstances. So it is with electronic training.

One of the greatest acknowledged advantages of electronic training is that sophisticated electronics do make us humans more predictable. It enhances human consistency, especially as it relates to correction. It also allows humans to easily and conveniently apply appropriate corrections, even when a dog is not within range of traditional (leash and choker collar) correction techniques.

Rules of electronic training

As was mentioned earlier, electronic training operates on the same basic principles used in all canine behavior modification: correction, redirection, and reward. Therefore, it is imperative that the dog understands the basics before more sophisticated training begins.

'Dummy Equipment Effect': Before electronic training begins, the owner/trainer needs to be comfortable in the use of the device, and the dog needs to be comfortable, as well. Thus it is very important to create the 'Dummy Equipment Effect' before beginning.

Dogs are highly intelligent and certainly smart enough to know the difference between the different types of collars being used. They look different. They smell different. They exert different pressures on the neck once they are applied. Even the owner/trainer acts differently with the different collars. In some cases, the owner/trainer is there; in other cases, he is not.

Because all of this is true, it is important to eliminate the equipment itself from the learning process. Here is how.

Before beginning to train with an active electronic collar, the dog should first become accustomed to a deactivated collar (i.e., take the battery out). Even if the dog trainer or dog owner is under pressure to train the dog quickly (e.g., the neighbors are complaining), he still needs to teach the dog that the collar is not something to be feared.

The last thing someone wants to see is the dog cowering when it is being approached with a training collar, electronic or otherwise. By spending just a few days introducing the dog to the collar, other problems can be prevented.

Perhaps the one most essential general rule is to work on only one behavior at a time.

General Rules: All of the general rules of obedience training apply to electronic training as well. In fact, they are probably even more important in electronic training. These guidelines include:

Do not train the dog for extended periods of time.

Limit the number of corrections the dog receives in one training session and in one training day.

Be sure that corrections are properly balanced with reward.

Always give the correction at the same time. That is, do so only when the dog is actually misbehaving, not before the misbehavior occurs or after the misbehavior has stopped. This is important because it gives the dog a chance to learn, (i.e., to understand what causes the correction in the first place).

Finally, the beginning point of most electronic training includes the use of a leash, which serves to help redirect the dog away from escape and other inappropriate responses. This, in turn, makes it increasingly important not to correct arbitrarily or out of frustration. As a dog trainer or owner, it is necessary to be as disciplined as you want the dog to be.

The importance of redirection and reward

Electronic training combines several different techniques. Applying a correction is only a small part of a training program. Redirection and praise are far more important.

Why is this methodology important? Suppose there is a dog in a containment system, but every day he charges away and barks at a jogger who is running along outside the established bounds. What should be the desired correction? He should come when he is called, stay in the yard, and stop barking at the jogger. But chasing and barking are perfectly normal in a dog's natural environment. Only in the human environment are they inappropriate.

Therefore, if the owner/trainer really wants to train the dog under these circumstances, he must first correct at the appropriate time, and consistently. He would do so using an obedience command. So, before beginning more complicated electronic training, it is important that the dog understand basic obedience commands. The trainer/owner must build from a solid foundation provided by these training basics.

In this specific instance, as soon as the dog takes off running, he would be given the 'Come' command. That way, when applying correction, it is because the dog did not come on command, not because he is chasing a jogger. Conversely, when the dog does obey immediately, he is praised for responding to the command, not for breaking off his pursuit. This is called redirection.

The risks in electronic training are the many variables. This same situation, handled improperly, can have the opposite effect. It could train the dog to attack joggers. A correction at the wrong time may cause the dog to identify the correction stimulus with the jogger. Dogs are known to have fight or flight responses to such threats. If the dog's response is to 'fight,' joggers beware!

Reward: Unfortunately, some dog trainers/owners put the emphasis on correction. Even in this article, the information is weighted in this area. This is because correction is the area where most training problems occur. Reward is a much easier concept to understand and apply. During training, the dog should constantly and consistently be given a deserved reward - preferably praise and petting - for behavior that meets his training objectives. Again, timing is critical. The dog must be able to make the connection between the reward and the appropriate behavior.

Gratuitous reward is also a no-no. The dog trainer must reward the dog only when he is behaving properly. Do not worry, there will be plenty of opportunities to do so. Unless, of course, the dog trainer/owner slacks off and chooses to reward inconsistently; or he breaks down further and treats the dog to praise, petting, and food, even if a behavior is inappropriate.

Emotional and energy outlet: Appropriate emotional outlets also bear some discussion in this context. Obviously, electronic training is designed to stop a dog from exhibiting misbehaviors, and help reward him for what the dog trainer/owner considers appropriate behavior. But if a dog cannot leave the yard, no reward can replace the freedom he has lost. In such cases, a dog must be given other appropriate outlets. This is why activities like running with the dog, or playing with him, are extremely important.

Redirection: Redirection is equally important, if not more so. In many electronic training situations, the dog trainer/owner needs to provide an alternate behavior for the dog. This redirection provides a known behavior pattern that the dog can fall back on, enabling the dog trainer/owner to reward him. A good example of such a behavior pattern is the 'Sit,' 'Get your ball,' or other command the dog already understands.

Have a plan: Overall, what one tries to do with redirection and reward is build better behavior in the dog. But when building anything, it is useful to have a blueprint - a plan that outlines specifically what to do under an array of circumstances.

Because of all the variables involved with electronic training, the dog trainer/owner needs to have such a plan. He needs to know exactly what he is going to do before a situation arises. Because, when it comes to training dogs, he needs to expect the unexpected. But if there is a plan in place, he will know exactly what to do.

The best plans are the simplest - the ones that ask the dog to do something basic. Pick something the dog has done many times before; perhaps a 'Sit' and 'Stay' command. Reliance on an old habit can bring a misbehaving dog - even a frightened or frazzled dog - back into the comfort zone. This will enable the dog trainer/owner to reward the dog, or regroup, should this become necessary.

Conclusion

Electronic training applications should rarely be the very first choice for canine training. But it is an effective alternative when other techniques have failed. The dog trainer/owner has to be very careful to use its techniques properly.

It is best to understand the ground rules that have some foundation in training philosophy.

If these devices are used properly, and in the right situation, they can save the lives of some dogs. In many cases, the alternatives are bleak for dogs that do not meet the human standards set for their behavior.

At the same time, the use of these devices may represent the future of dog training. The staggering growth of electronic training products certainly suggests that this may be so.

As the electronic training technology grows less expensive, it becomes increasingly popular. Savvy manufacturers and marketers will continue to develop products that offer pets more comfort and their owners a wide variety of tools. Dog trainers and dog owners need to be prepared to offer the same.

[Guest Dog in the boat]

Screw the electric collar...

Maybe for a breed with agressive behavior, and an owner who doesn't want to spend quality time with the pet he probalby shouldn't have, if he is considering a collar,

But for a social, unagressive breed such as the retreiver, "an electric collar will change the animals behavior" and you might as well give the dog away,

cause you just ended any chance of that retreiver respecting you.

You have a very inteligent breed who needs quality time as training, don't be the stupid 1/2.

[DC_84 5]

I'd have to agree with Wampa... The collar is the way to go... After witnessing what these collars can do (labs trained for hunting, as well as dogs that are house pets)... I'd never own a dog without one...

Dustin

[wampa 18]

You are 100% wrong and way off base. Using a collar has nothing to do with having an aggressive breed (I have a French Brittany Spaniel) whom I spend all my free time with when I can. I happen to have come across a couple of goldens in my time that were fairly aggressive and quite stupid, so don't base your rediculous assumptions on your own pet. Your dog will "respect" you if you are fair and consitant in your training. Why do you think that having a collar equals not spending quality time with your dog? The kind of person who would invest serious money into a dog (which includes money spent on training aids) usually wants the best for their pet, and it has been proven time and again that if you want results and are committed to training you dog, then the electonic collar is you best bet. Tricking your dog with treats will not change it's behaviour.

The problem here is that Roger's dog, no matter what breed it is, has serious behavioral issues. I stand by the fact that you will not change this dogs behaviour with hugs and treats. Save that for the rest of the day. You need to spend some time with this dog working with him and let him know that what he is doing is unacceptable.

[Some Old Guy 968]

Hi Guys thanks for the advice.

I have owned dogs all my life and used every trick and tip except for the electric collars.

I have had great dogs who I could call off of a bear in mid fight. I have no problem showing them who is the boss. Just like Terry said, I go then they go.

As for excercise well I live in the country and they get lots! The pen is for when nobody is home and we are at work and school.

***I bought the extra high pen and it's holding her. I took the end of an extension cord and bared both wires. The positive is hooked up to the top portion of the fence and the ground is at the bottom. I insulated the bottom half from the top half of the pen. When she tries to climb the pen and gets past half way point her body is the contact between the positive and negative terminals Poof! She gets jolted right from the fence and lands on the ground kicking and yelping. She's only tried to climb the fence twice and she got it good. Now when I place her in the pen she sits in the middle and shakes uncontrollably. When I get home she hasn't moved one inch. Now that's what I call trainin'!***

Roger

P.S. Before you start typing and calling the humanes society on me the parts between ***these*** is a joke and I would never ever do that. The pen is holding her and is working. There's no electricty involved whatsoever.

[Guest Dan]

My Border Collies understand the English language. Their intelligence amazes me. Sure, they'll try to get away with things now and then. But they know when they've done wrong. Right or wrong, I wouldn't enjoy having to put an electronic collar on my dogs.

This is my best friend, Abby.

And she has her own fishing hat.

[Guest TerryK]

Screw the electric collar...

Maybe for a breed with aggressive behavior, and an owner who doesn't want to spend quality time with the pet he probably shouldn't have, if he is considering a collar,

But for a social, unaggressive breed such as the retriever, "an electric collar will change the animals behavior" and you might as well give the dog away,

cause you just ended any chance of that retriever respecting you.

You have a very intelligent breed who needs quality time as training, don't be the stupid 1/2.

You are 100% wrong and way off base. Using a collar has nothing to do with having an aggressive breed (I have a French Brittany Spaniel) whom I spend all my free time with when I can. I happen to have come across a couple of goldens in my time that were fairly aggressive and quite stupid, so don't base your rediculous assumptions on your own pet. Your dog will "respect" you if you are fair and consitant in your training. Why do you think that having a collar equals not spending quality time with your dog? The kind of person who would invest serious money into a dog (which includes money spent on training aids) usually wants the best for their pet, and it has been proven time and again that if you want results and are committed to training you dog, then the electonic collar is you best bet. Tricking your dog with treats will not change it's behaviour.

The problem here is that Roger's dog, no matter what breed it is, has serious behavioral issues. I stand by the fact that you will not change this dogs behaviour with hugs and treats. Save that for the rest of the day. You need to spend some time with this dog working with him and let him know that what he is doing is unacceptable.

Please remember, everyone is entitled to their opinions, ideas and assumptions and should not be ridiculed for expressing them.