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"The Duck" made a post under the 'Wolf River " thread yesterday that included some great thoughts. One important point he made was that this very forum exists "in part" to educate. (I couldn't agree more) - and that we should have a discussion about the ethic and culture of steelheading. Check it out if you get a chance. In order to have a conversation about the above - a few random steelhead terms routinely tossed around campfires and tailgates need to be defined. They are included here to help educate those not aware of some of the more common expressions steelheaders use. These loose definitions also expose a few touchy ethical issues - and, depending on how you interpret them, shed some insight into the culture of steelhead fisherman in this neck of the woods. (they are also included for a little fun - are of my opinion only - and please feel free to add to - or correct me if in your opinion, I'm off base in any instance) Head - the oxygen rich section at the very top of a run or pool. Gut / Belly - the middle part of a run or pool that is the deepest section. Tail-out - the lower or bottom section of a pool or run where the water velocity accelerates and shallows up. Lock Jaw - fish that have shut down or won't take due to unfavourable conditions or repeated molestation Molested Fish - fish that have been excessively harassed by multiple anglers Stacked Fish - numbers of fish congested in small areas often due to bottlenecks or other physical stream barriers such as chutes, wiers, ledges or waterfalls Strike Zone - the distance a fish will move to grab a fly or lure Rested Pool - a pool that has had a break from excessive angling pressure Kelt - physically thin fish that has spawned, and in the process of migrating back to the lake Drop Back - same as a kelt Mended Kelt - a spawned out fish, that has recovered from the rigours of the spawn. These are fish that have fed aggressively and re-gained the silvery sheen of clean fish. Often you can catch these fish at the mouth of the rivers, where - "while on the mend", they slide in and out of the lower reach of the river to feed if water conditions and food sources are favourable. Looper - an inferior fish of the Kamloops strain, "stocked" in US tribs by State DNR's. These are poor fighting inferior fish that don't belong in our fishery. You'll find higher populations of Loopers south of the border toward Duluth, although there a few larger north shore rivers that you will regularly attract loppers. Why would certain North Shore rivers attract or hold populations of Loopers??? Ask "JG". JG - "Jon George", a noted steelhead expert, OMNR Biologist with 40+ years of fishery management experience, the energy behind the winter Squeers Lake Trout meley and the mastermind of the Portage Creek Steelhead Program. Jon is a true gentleman and a valued member of Thunder Bay Fishing who has forgot more about steelhead than what most of us collectively know. If you are an young aspiring steelhead angler, that wants to learn something, you'll benefit from talking to - or better yet - fishing with this man. He regularly attends most NSSA meetings. Boot - a dark, drop back in poor physical condition Chromer - fresh silver fish, also known as "Mint" Clean Fish - healthy fish void of scars Buck - male fish Skip Jack - young buck Ripe Buck - a male spewing milt Hen - female fish Skien - the internal membrane that contains unmature eggs tight within the body cavity of a hen. Each hen has two skiens. Ripe Hen - a female fish whose eggs are "loose" and have separated from the skien. Raped Hen - a "ripe" hen that has been squeezed of it's loose eggs to replenish a bait supply before she can deposit them to a "redd" Redd - the nest a female digs in gravel with her tail. Redds are often found in tail-outs and are recognizable by a lighter coloured depression in the stream bed. Note - knowingly stepping on redds classifies you as a "loogan" Loogan - an unethical angler who is not respectful of our resource or other fisherman. Yahoo's - two or more loogans trampling redds in a tailout or partaking in other questionable acts such as: Up-Holing - the unethical act of pushing in front of an angler who is in position and preparing to fish a run or section of water. Down-Holing - the unethical act of moving in below an angler stepping into water he is about to cover. (Note - it is not unethical to fish above - or below a "Camper") Camper - an angler who knowingly claims or sits in one spot for an excessive amount of time. Lined fish - the unethical act of the repeated drifting of a fly or lure "past" a fish so that the fishing line actually intersects with the open maw of a breathing trout in such a way that it provides the opportunity to yank back and sink the hook into the side of its mouth. (note - fish are most often lined in tail-outs or other shallow sections of water where they are highly visible and vunerable) Littering - one of the most un-forgiveable acts of loogans. F'n Yapper - an inexperienced angler with loose lips. (Note - most loogans are also notorious f'n yappers - and both loogans and inexperienced anglers are capable of maturing to become " experienced steelheaders" The most dangerous thing a yapper or loogan can do to place undue pressure on sensitive fishery - yap on the Internet Things that annoy experienced steelheaders most - Yappers, Campers and Loogans. FINAL NOTE - MOST - OF NOT ALL "experienced", steelheaders go through various stages of "yapping and looganitis" prior to maturing into the ethical, effective angler they are today. NO REAL steelhead angler is "above" any other on the river, regardless of sex, age, creed, social status or experience - and the VERY BEST "steelheaders" are the ones willing to share information - in an ethically appropriate manner according to the "unwritten code" - that helps the less experienced learn to respect the resource - and grow as responsible anglers. In my opinion, Lorne Allard is our very best. That said, the best thing about steelheading, is not always the fish. It's about catching up with friends we may not have seen in a while, sharing a few laughs - and getting outside and getting close to moving water after 5 months of ice and winter. If we get lucky, we hook a wrestle with a few chromers - and shake hands with a clean bullet. See ya on the river... cnb

You forgot one. #9: Don't talk about steelhead.

i am still going up there to watch the ice float down the river and sorry for asking on river conditions i didnt realize that a particular species of fish were so magical that it had to be kept a secret. in fact if anyone wants to go watch the ice with me let me know LOL.

I don't understand how SOMEONE ELSE posting about spots THEY are fishing is ruining YOUR secret sport that YOU have put x number of hours into finding over the last 20 years. None of the rivers around town have any secret spots on them. If your spot is so secret and you don't want anyone else ruining it, then don't tell anyone. Go stand there by yourself and have fun. Maybe if the self-aclaimed "diehards" spent more time fishing and less time trolling internet forums, there wouldn't be this issue year in and year out.

what's the problem with that? i could care less what you think...I'm at least coming here to share my unsuccessful stories and not coming here to complain and whine

You are right fish handling was not the focus of this thread, but either was discussing whether or not it is a good idea to post steelhead locations. The first 6 out of 8 pages are about whether or not steelhead are starting to run yet. I must have missed something because i dont seem to see any exact locations posted or revealing pictures. I know the die hard steelheaders are a passionate group but I think you guys are jumping the gun a little on this one. To me, mentioning that the bite is on in the mac or neebing for steelhead is similar to mentioning that the bite is on at lac des milles lac for pickerel. You dont see many posts about everyones secret pickerel lakes but there is a ton of posts on lac des milles lac. Same goes for steelhead. I dont think any secrets have been revealed here.

maybe i was misunder stood,what i was getting at is i don't think the mouth of the current river or micvic are secret spots. as for giving away spots that you've walked through the bush to find you deserve to have those secrets you earned it. arvey

I plused you, now you're a zero again. (new word: "plused")

A sane person wouldn't ask you to do any such thing Rog, but I guess what most of us hope is that people will just think about what they are posting before hitting the submit button. If you like steelhead fishing, great. If you want them to be around for your kids and grandkids to enjoy as well, even better, but if everyone and their dogs swarms a particular stream just as the run peaks, theres a good chance that after a few seasons the population will be in trouble. Fact of the matter is that this very scenario has happened in the past, and not just with steelhead. I can think of many naturally reproducing brook trout lakes that I used to fish as a young man that are virtually fish less because of over exploitation. This is exactly why natural brook trout lakes are closed to ice fishing. They are too fragile to support the pressure that will come once word gets out.

x1000. I don't see any walleye, bass, lake trout or brook trout specialists giving up exact locations and times on the forums. Why is it that the steelhead guys get raked over the coals for this every year but not the rest? My theory is that to be a steelheader, you generally have to be a very hearty individual who will brave conditions that would keep most other types of anglers on the couch and this means that any info you acquire is generally because you got up at 4 am, slogged through the snow, rain, wind ect, to MAYBE catch 1 or 2 fish for an 8 hour day. NO ONE gave up spots for me when I was first learning the ropes 40 years ago. No one wrote magazine articles with techniques and GPS coordinates. I pounded the streams and watched what the guys that were catching fish did, then tried to emulate them. To this day, some 40 years later, I'm STILL leaning new locations and techniques......mostly by trial and error. I share much with anglers who ask. I carry extra floats, fish tailing gloves, measuring tapes, yarn hooks etc, to give away just in case someone on the stream asks for some help, but I will not give up a location that I consistently catch fish in. To a dedicated steelheader, these fish are rare jewels that need to be protected for the future. They worry that if word get out about their favorite little stream, the population could easily be wiped out. Some of these spawning populations are in two digit range. If 10 guys fish such a stream two times each and kill a fish both times, whats left to carry on the unique population?

Wen"t by yesterday lots of water but still lots of ice

Ah yes the MIB with the little guns lol.. Ah my favorite time of year. Don't tell anyone about ice on a major river crossing the trans Canada Highway make the poor guy spent the gas money to drive out there and see for himself then he will be as twisted as some of the other so called Mr. Steelhead fishermen. Good reply Chuck hope the MIB don't visit you for letting people know about the secret Nipigon river and the ice conditions.

I really didn't see anything in Izzy"s post about steelhead Simply asking about the river and ice conditions has nothing to do with steelheading Perhaps he just wanted to go Kayaking or walking along the shoreline taking pictures of ducks The Wolf crosses the Hwy and you would have to be blind not to notice guys lined up on the shoreline with float rods Hmm wonder what their doing there I think that with the price of gas being what it is a little info about river conditions would be just sharing without wasting gas on the 45 min drive Wanna know about the Nipigon River ? Ya it's open all the way from Alaxander Dam right to Lake Helen and it has been all winter as it is most years then there is a large patch of ice about 4 miles long It then starts to breakup with large chunks going under the bridge which causes havoc for guys trolling Have no idea what their fishin for though, perhaps spring coho, oops good thing I didn't say steelhead or the MIB will come and visit me

One more thing. I'm in no way saying that if you want to post a location etc that you can't, but it's merely my opinion that you shouldn't. It's an open forum and the rules don't forbid it so who am I to say what you can and can't post.....but I'd rather you didn't.

If they don't know where to go then they can't drag the fish on the rocks. That seems pretty cut and dry to me. Regardless, fish handling and the like is not the focus of this thread so lets stay on track. I'll make a point. Al, in your article in the newsletter. "Visiting Old Haunts" why didn't you mention the names of the lakes? I know where you caught the 30"er should I start blabbing. NO, would I? NO. That lake gets enough pressure without giving the armchair anglers an easy out. That lake is highly overlooked when it comes to BIG walleye. There are some of us still in the know and that is fine. What I am getting at is you put in the long hours to learn a lake. Is it fair that some internet savvy angler sidle up beside you and reap the rewards? NOPE! Wes

Many of us agree and I personally do my best to educate people on proper fish handling techniques.....but thats a whole new HUGE can of worms! lol PS: if anyone needs a fish glove or a tape measure, just ask!!

You aren't alone. Most people work for a living and have to fish a few hours in the evening. The point is, when you put in decades of time to figure out a river's and a fish's secrets, be it an urban stream or a remote one, you really feel like you've put in the effort and you can now reap the rewards. To just hand over all that information to a few thousand complete strangers is pretty disconcerting for most fisher folks, steelhead or other. I don't get what is so difficult to understand. I stood in -2c water for 4 hours today to catch one fish. I'm not going to tell anyone where it was, even though it was only one fish, any more than I'm going to tell anyone if it was 25 fish. Why should someone be able to be snug and warm on their couch just waiting for the rest of us to freeze our jublies off so to find fish only to have the swarming hoards show up and push us off the river?

Yes there are fish there. All you have to do is get out and flog. With a little time and effort, you'll learn what to use and where to fish.

Arvey: I didn't say they were the crown jewels, I said some of us consider them the crown jewels. Big difference. Some people are just as passionate about walleyes, pike, lake trout etc, and I'm sure somewhere in the world someone is freaking out because his Giant Snakehead spot is being broadcast to the world, but that dosen't make the diehards any less passionate about their species of choice.

Some people want to share and do, and others don't and keep quiet. Great, now lets move on, is it really worth pages and pages of arguement over who is right?

It WAS a good river. It's only a matter of time now and the hoards will be all over it. But I bet it was fun while it lasted.

I personally think the ministry needs to take a re-look at this policy. At Nelson they made poor choices, they knew it was a trouble spot for some people, so the threw up the ruling. That same year they also repaired and widened the road to make access easier. If it is already such an overpopulated, heavily used spot, why would they improve the road in there? Why not leave the road alone and increase the camping area, and not put an occupancy rule. Seems like a poor use of money to me. Increasing traffic to a trouble spot is only going to worsen the problem. I am not sure where all the people were last year that claimed there was issues at Nelson? They sure didn't take my spot when I left, or show up all week, but thanks for getting this rule enforced there and making me pack up. There is nothing more maddening then wasting my time and resources for nothing!

i shake my had at all the yip yappin that goes on every year over this.the way i look at it if i get to a spot that's taken look for another. granted some spots on a river are better than others and you may end up in a not so good spot,but guess what for that bow to go from point a to point b he has to go by you. arvey