Ontario Bait Policy Review public comment period

[Blackfootbaits 53]

1 hour ago, fishingfinn said:

 

 

To elaborate on this, 

 

Another thing to consider is what will be the cost to bait shops?  Typically the purchase of bait is cash only, no receipt.  Obviously there will be an upfront cost to getting modernized tills which will display date and location.  Or will a handwritten note suffice? Probably not.

 

A cash register for as little as $300.00 can do all this for you.  We have had a register for all our 15 years.

[j.klister 24]

Anybody who has ever fished anywhere else knows the writing has been on the wall on this in Ontario for a while now.  Ontario has been up to now pretty much the Wild West of bait and there is no way this can continue. How many people here are aware that the earthworms used for bait are almost all not native to North America? Probably not many.

 

[Some Old Guy 968]

I knew night crawlers/dew worms aren't native. Didn't know all earth worms weren't native. 

 

Roger

[j.klister 24]

worms.biology.ualberta.ca

 

[crazyctr 227]

8 hours ago, Resource Pimp said:

I get the vhs thing. I don't see the rational on how this applies to a resident. I buy my leeches by the pound and my wife and I can easily fish off that pound for a month and a half.  Explain the danger of vhs of a pound of leeches I bought from larrys sitting in my fridge for a month and a half?  This reg in this scenerio benifits the bait dealer more than the environment.

 

[Resource Pimp 60]

edited

[crazyctr 227]

18 minutes ago, Resource Pimp said:

 

 

[Blackfootbaits 53]

wtf  i really hope you guys don't believe any of that crap.  NO CALLS HAVE BEEN MADE TO ANYONE.  Just some jerks trying to cause more crap.  This is stressfull enough without idiots like that trying to spread rumors. Relax everyone.  Read the WHOLE Strategic Policy for Bait Managment.  Some people just don't get it.

Bruce

 

[Some Old Guy 968]

I just finished reading that 40 page document. 

 

This is has been in the works since 2012 and I must say this is the first I heard about it. Out of the loop I guess. 

 

While I agree with some I disagree with lots. My main sticking point is the receipt or proof of purchase and destroying my "expired" bait. 

 

I have never been charged with a fishing violation. I am willing to fight this ticket if I get one. My bait expires when it dies.

 

What's next? I get fined because I lived on the edge and ate that can of soup that was expired by a day?

 

Roger

[j.klister 24]

For a bit of a lesson for people on what things are like elsewhere in Canada, here's a synopsis of the bait (and other general regulation) situation in other provinces where I've fished at some point (ie had a license) during the last 15 years or so. 

 

Alberta

No live bait fish.  Some places you can use and catch bait fish, but they must be immediately killed if to be used as bait.
Some places have restrictions whereby you can't use any "scented" bait, even artificially scented baits like power bait, etc.
Used to be barbless hooks only, but recently barbed hooks are allowed again (I think, though there is some debate over this).

 

Saskatchewan

No live bait fish.  All dead bait fish must be commercially prepared (can't catch your own).  If they originate from Ontario, they must be certified VHS free  

Some lakes have catch and release limits (ie you can only catch and release a certain number of fish (usually like 20-30) per day, must stop fishing after that number.  Not all lakes, only some)

Barbless hooks mandatory on catch and release waters

 

British Columbia

Regulations are complicated because there are fresh waters (BC license) and tidal waters (federal, ie DFO, license) that have different rules (but on the need to keep a log book described in the proposed bait policy, you already have to do this in BC for example for salmon and few other species in tidal waters.  Must keep a log book (comes with your license) of when, where, and size of all fish you catch and keep because there are annual limits).

However, for "fresh waters", the use of any part of a "fin fish" (which is how what we think of as bait fish is defined in their regulations) is completely prohibited, dead or alive, except for a couple of specific circumstances way up north, and in the lower part of the Fraser River in Vancouver.  When there are bait bans (which happen at various times for various bodies of water), no bait with any organic substance in it can be used (which rules out scented powerbaits, etc.).    

In streams and rivers, single barbless hooks only.  Barbed and trebles allowed in lakes unless disallowed (most places I ever wanted to fish, it was specifically disallowed, so essentially, it's single barbless only).

 

Ontario is the wild west of fishing, my friends, and it's not going to last this way forever.

[Some Old Guy 968]

Thanks for that info. If Ontario comes to some or all of those rules great. I'm for it. But no where do I see anything about reciepts and bait expiration in those rules. 

 

Even my plate stickers last a year!

 

 

Roger

 

[Resource Pimp 60]

Mad Scientist, if you're unable to answer a question, who does one contact to get an answer and clarification before submitting to the environmental registry?

[j.klister 24]

Like I think  was already noted by someone else, the alternative to keeping your bait purchase receipt and having it expire in two weeks, is no live bait allowed at all, like is the case for BC, AB, and SK.

 

Just for curiosity, I looked up a few other places and did a quick scan of the online regs summary

 

Manitoba - lot's of places up north, no live bait allowed.  Bait is allowed in the south, but you have to have a "Live Bait Fish Transfer and Use Receipt issued by the dealer".  So basically, need to keep your recipet in MB, though it doesn't expire.  No importing bait

 

Quebec - Almost all dead bait only, no importing bait.  A few places where it's kind of a mix of fresh/salt water (ie Lac Sageunay), live bait is allowed for ice fishing.

 

New Brunswick. No live bait, except on some international waters (probably because Maine allows it), and in those cases, it must be bait caught in those waters.  "Crown Reserve Waters" fly fishing only (probably reserved for Irving family only, lol.).

 

NB also has this interesting prohibition: "Fishing by jigging, or assisting in landing fish that have been caught by jigging in inland waters is not permitted."  Unless "jigging" means something different out east than it does here, I can see how this would cause problems around here, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Some Old Guy 968]

Right on. Then ban it. 

 

My my point is the receipt concept and being told to throw away something that might be still good. Be it minnows or anything else that is a product. (Validation stickers not included). 

 

I just don't get it. If I have been using these minnows or leeches for a week and six days what is wrong with them? I have to get a fresh batch? 

 

Then I get asked to produce a receipt that has been in my wallet for a week. Ever see what that looks like? You can't even read them the ink wears off. 

 

Once again. My issue is with the above. Expire and receipts. That is all. 

 

I might even suggest that the bmz areas should be water sheds. 

 

Roger

[j.klister 24]

Outright ban would be the easiest option enforcement wise as well as the one that reduces most the environmental risk of spreading invasives, disease, etc.  It's also the option that seems to have been taken almost everywhere else in Canada.  It wouldn't do much to help bait trapping and retailing business, though. 

 

So, you see put yourself in the position of the people actually making these decisions.  Must stop environmental risk, must not affect bait economy too much.  What do you do?

[Some Old Guy 968]

What would I do? Thank you for that question!

 

For Ontario. 

 

Mandatory flush of ballast from ocean vessels coming up the Great Lakes. Fresh water ballast from clean water area such as pressurized pipe from uncontaminated water. Not take in ballast water from the ship that just dumped beside you. 

 

At each lock, if ship took on ballast from waters below lock, then repeat process as above. 

 

Locks must have something in place to prevent travel of invasive species. 

 

Want money? These big companies should be flipping a few bucks to clean up our waters. Not always coming down to me and you to be paying to clean it up.

 

Anglers must wash inside and outside of boat between water bodies. 

 

I have been fishing a long time. I have yet to see an invasive minnow type in my bait whether I bought it or trapped it. 

 

Smelts. How did they get here?

 

ruffe and goby. How did they get here?

 

zebra mussels. How did they get here?

 

smallmouth bass. How did they get here?

 

They did not get here from an anglers bait bucket. 

 

Roger. 

[j.klister 24]

Did some more investigation into some other provinces and territories, since this is kind of fun.

 

Nova Scotia - defines "natural bait" as anything with organic substances, including but not limited to, minnows, worms, corn, and for some reason, pork rinds (lol).  Live bait seems to mostly be allowed, unless "natural bait" prohibited specifically for that body of water, which it often is (this means worms also banned, some debate as to whether the natural bait ban also bans things like gulp and power bait, since its uncertain if those contain organic substances).  The exception seems to be Bras D'or Lakes (enormous lake in the middle of Cape Breton Island that is partially connected to the ocean, where live bait is always allowed.

 

Newfoundland and Labrador - anybody ever fished here?  Freshwater fisheries also managed federally by DFO? Can't find a provincial regs summary online like for other provinces.

 

Yukon.  Straight from the regulations: "It is unlawful to use any live fish as bait or possess any live fish for use as bait while fishing in Yukon waters. The head, tail, fins, bones or viscera of legal fish (but no edible parts of a fish, except cisco) may be used as bait." Barbless hooks recommonded, mandatory on conservation waters.

 

Northwest Territories, again straight from the regulations summary: "Live fish cannot be used for bait. Live fish or live fish eggs cannot be put into NWT waters.".  Barbless hooks are mandatory.

 

Nunavut.  Lol, 404 error.

 

So basically, live bait banned everywhere except NS, MB, and ON (can't find info for NF and NU).  And compared to NS and MB, Ontario has pretty much no restrictions at all (relatively speaking).

 

[slowday 2]

Quote

1 hour ago, j.klister said:

Manitoba - lot's of places up north, no live bait allowed.  Bait is allowed in the south, but you have to have a "Live Bait Fish Transfer and Use Receipt issued by the dealer".  So basically, need to keep your recipet in MB, though it doesn't expire.  No importing bait

 

Just a clarification from Manitoba.  The retailer issues a Live Bait receipt, which is valid for 3 days.  That bait must be killed after 3 days.  Our province has recently implemented new AIS legislation also.  It identifies "control zones" where AIS have been identified (zebra mussels and spiny water flea mostly).  If live bait is used (or possesed on a waterbody) in a control zone, then that bait must all be killed when leaving that waterbody.  The control zones include many of the most popular waterbodies in the southern portion of the province (Winnipeg River/Whiteshell area, Red river, and Lake Winnipeg).  So essentially, if fishing any of these waters, you can only take enough live bait with you for that day, and you can only keep excess live bait at home for 3 days province wide.

 

[j.klister 24]

Thx. for the Manitoba clarifications.  So, basically, even if this new policy was fully implemented, Ontario would STILL have the least bait fish related regulations of anywhere in Canada.

 

As far as the invasives in the great lakes, yes those as far as I know are from the ballast water.  However, they are not going away, and one has to deal with reality as it is.  So to prevent further spread of these things as well as to prevent new invasives from coming in, increased regulation on the movement of bait fish AND more stringent shipping regulations would BOTH be needed, I would think.

[Some Old Guy 968]

Well long story short. 

 

Ill trap my own and pick my own bait that way I will only have to carry a log book. 

 

Roger

[Resource Pimp 60]

19 minutes ago, Roger Mayer said:

Well long story short. 

 

Ill trap my own and pick my own bait that way I will only have to carry a log book. 

 

Roger

How are you going to document your choice of zone ? And can you change your choice at any time? 

 

"Anglers would not be allowed to move personally harvested bait in more than one BMZ of their choosing. (Note anglers may still personally harvest bait in other zones but would not be allowed to transport over land".

[eyelander 164]

j.klister, regarding jigging inland in the east, do a search on cod jigging which is legal in the ocean.

Some people were probably doing the same thing inland. It is different from our verson of jigging.

[j.klister 24]

29 minutes ago, Resource Pimp said:

How are you going to document your choice of zone ? And can you change your choice at any time? 

 

"Anglers would not be allowed to move personally harvested bait in more than one BMZ of their choosing. (Note anglers may still personally harvest bait in other zones but would not be allowed to transport over land".

 

Think about it for a second and it's not hard.  You have to buy a license every year, it's declared when you purchase, or else defaults to the BMZ of your home address.  You have an online account already associated with your outdoors card, through which you make your choice (at least, I do, yeah, yeah not everyone does, for those people you go to a license issuer or MNR office and do it).  You probably won't be allowed to change it very often, because this creates another loophole for people to exploit by continually changing your chosen BMZ. To cover the additional costs of the system, I can see there eventually being a personal bait harvesting license that costs a bit more money (NOT in the current policy proposal)

[Some Old Guy 968]

42 minutes ago, Resource Pimp said:

How are you going to document your choice of zone ? And can you change your choice at any time? 

 

"Anglers would not be allowed to move personally harvested bait in more than one BMZ of their choosing. (Note anglers may still personally harvest bait in other zones but would not be allowed to transport over land".

That's fine and doable for me. 

 

Roger

[Resource Pimp 60]

11 minutes ago, j.klister said:

 

Think about it for a second and it's not hard.  You have to buy a license every year, it's declared when you purchase, or else defaults to the BMZ of your home address.  You have an online account already associated with your outdoors card, through which you make your choice (at least, I do, yeah, yeah not everyone does, for those people you go to a license issuer or MNR office and do it).  You probably won't be allowed to change it very often, because this creates another loophole for people to exploit by continually changing your chosen BMZ. To cover the additional costs of the system, I can see there eventually being a personal bait harvesting license that costs a bit more money (NOT in the current policy proposal)

How are people over 65 who do not need an outdoor card or fishing license dealt with regarding their choice of BMZ ?