Enough already,It should be put to a vote

[Guest Big Moose]

Please forgive me if I'm not being pollitically correct, BUT I for one think enough is enough...

What would be the problem with a national vote everytime "our government" decides to give up more "rights " to these groups.

I'm starting to think some of these "rights" are just being made up as we play along...

Now I know this topic won't go all that far as most people are to chicken sh#% to stand up and say something even when hidden on the internet,But I'm not looking for an advantage one way or the other.Why can't things not be done in a non-biased way with one set of rules for all CANADIANS.(no matter what race)

I wouldn't be bringing this up if it weren't thrown in my face yet again while I was trying to enjoy a hockey game and an icy brown pop at a local hole.

Is it not enough that you have no closed fishing or hunting seasons with absolutly no possesion limits to obide by,Now instead of taking the hint that a fishery is closed for a reason, You have to attack it during the spawn for the simple reason of "because you can you will" What kind of mentality is that?

CLOSED SHOULD MEAN CLOSED TO EVERYBODY!!!! AM I WRONG???

[Guest TerryK]

You are not wrong Moose. Closed is closed.

[Guest pdh]

Plain and simple......stop electing liberals !

Paul

[Guest Wes]

AMEN to that bro! I have said this many times. I have had more than a few heated discussions with the other team.

[Jayfishin 63]

AMEN to that bro! I have said this many times. I have had more than a few heated discussions with the other team.

No matter who's in the big office they all seem to cater to the minorities. So much for democracy. Hind site says that the government should of kept their foot down dozens of years ago when all this crap started. They have dug their own hole in these matters and now we have to deal with it (especially here in the north). One country - one set of rules, don't like it then leave! Ï'm sure if the public knew how much time and money our government wastes on these kinds of issues it would be sickening.

As for a fix - probably to late to do anything about it now, just keep complaining about it for the next 100 years. Nice to get that off the chest (vent some steam) once and while eh!

We have a great country of resources here but its getting pretty complicated to enjoy them.

Jay

[Some Old Guy 968]

Hi Guys,

I understand your opinions on this subject but keep this in mind.

Who's rules do we follow? *One country - one set of rules*

Also Ontario fisheries are based on this, Able to sustain Native fishing then Commercial fishing then sport fishing, which is us. We are at the bottom of the barrel no matter which way you look at it. Commercial licenses are being bought up and not used but we are still at the bottom but throw the most money at it.

Take a look at Quebec. Pretty much all wildlife management is taken care of by first nations peoples (bands) and it is very well taken care of. Better than ours. Why is it better do you ask? Where do you think the funds go? Ahhh the all mighty dollar!

Roger

[Jayfishin 63]

If one group or more can work together and do a good job then all the power to them regardless of their ancestry. I guess the problem is there are too many small groups working on their own individual ideas which may or may not aid the other. As for Quebec maybe we can learn a thing or two from them in fisheries aspect but I would tend to be cautious for that to happen properly here in Ontario. In Ontario, our problem is policital parties change quite often as well as the shuffling of cabinet members. We may get a good one for Natural Resources then the next could be a dud! Hopefully two steps foward and only one step back takes place instead of the other way around.

Jay

[Some Old Guy 968]

Right on Jay!

Roger

[Guest kingjames_2nd]

I have been involved in many discussion on this topic, usually with disgruntled drunks at watering holes, campfires or house parties.

The biggest concern raised in those instances was the native right to net rivers. Apparently they are allowed to drag a net across a river at say, its mouth. If they do this then they effectively stop the fish from being able to travel up stream and spawn. Because fish remember wherre they were born and will travel to that spot to spawn later, any new borns are now only going to spawn at the mouth rather than up stream.

The argument made sence to me at the time and sounded terrible. I dont know if it is true or not but that is one thing I would especially like to see banned or changed ( again if it is true).

On another note, not every one is conservationally minded. I know a number of fisher people who will catch and keep their limit every time. I know others who catch and release always. I think most people here would agree to release most if not all musky they catch but if they are allowed 1 per day. Hypothetically if I go out every day and catch 1 per day, every day I am not breaking the law; but is it ethical? If 5 people do the same on the same body of water that's potentially 35 musky per week they could be harvesting all within their rights. ( thats assuming they can find 35 musky in a week.) 10 people could be 70 ina week. I think the system is geared towards the fact that not every body fishes every day, and they dont fish to keep their limit every time especialy with high risk species.

There are also some people who A: do not buy a license but fish any way, or B: go over their limit and don't care. I am sure this occurs all over irregardless of race.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that you have people who would fish with dynamite if they could get away with it, and you have people who will fish to the maximum extent they are allowed in all cases. Even if you removed their rights to fish during spawning season there are some who would do it any way. I don't think removing all of one groups rights is the answer but I dont have an answer for the situation either.

Edit: I used musky as an example because they have a low limit every where and are slow to reproduce.

[Guest Big Moose]

I have been involved in many discussion on this topic, usually with disgruntled drunks at watering holes, campfires or house parties.

Hypothetically if I go out every day and catch 1 per day, every day I am not breaking the law; but is it ethical? If 5 people do the same on the same body of water that's potentially 35 musky per week they could be harvesting all within their rights. ( thats assuming they can find 35 musky in a week.) 10 people could be 70 ina week. I think the system is geared towards the fact that not every body fishes every day, and they dont fish to keep their limit every time especialy with high risk species.

This is why it is a Catch and POSSESSION limit.

So if you "had" seventy muskies then yes you would be breaking the law!

[Guest kingjames_2nd]

This is why it is a Catch and POSSESSION limit.

So if you "had" seventy muskies then yes you would be breaking the law!

If I eat and consume that musky the same night of the day I caught it, me and my large family, then the next day it isnt illigal to catch another?

What if I mount my musky on the wall with taxidermy, does that then count as a possession and I can never keep another again as long as I have it? This is all so complicated.

I'd just like to point out that I rarely catch fish let alone catch my limit and have never been musky fishing.

I think that if you eat your 1 Musky that night you are allowed to catch another the next day. IF I lived on a North shore trib and caught 1 steelhead per day and ate it every day I could keep catching and eating them untill they are gone?

How ever legal this is it isnt necessarily ethical. People don't need a treaty granting them unlimited fishing rights to abuse the system. I think those who have those unlimited rights and choose to abuse the system, can do so on a much larger scale though.

[Guest TerryK]

Couple of points James:

If you have a fish in your freezer waiting to be mounted, then it is a fish in your possession. If it's already on the wall, no problem.

Most migratory fish do tend to return to their home streams but it's not the rule. If a stream is blocked they WILL seek out another stream if the need becomes urgent. Some even spawn in one stream one year, then the next they will spawn in another. Rainbow Trout tagged in Portage Creek have been caught in the lake and in streams in Michigan and Minnesota.

I do agree with you of course on the netting issue. Fished the Lomond River on the Reserve one time and there was a gill net in the lake, stretched across the mouth in plain sight. There were a few fish in the river but not many.

[Guest Dan]

Take a look at Quebec. Pretty much all wildlife management is taken care of by first nations peoples (bands) and it is very well taken care of. Better than ours. Why is it better do you ask? Where do you think the funds go? Ahhh the all mighty dollar!

Roger

Head of Quebec Wildlife Federation charged with over fishing

[Guest TerryK]

Que. Wildlife Federation head fined for overfishing

Updated Wed. Jan. 23 2008 2:24 PM ET

The Canadian Press

MONTREAL -- The president of the Quebec wildlife federation is in hot water for allegedly fishing over the limit.

Alain Gagnon will appear in court in Roberval, Que., on Thursday to be arraigned on a charge he caught too many speckled trout during an outing in July 2007.

The limit is 20 fish.

Chantal Drapeau, a spokeswoman for the Quebec Natural Resources Department, confirmed Wednesday that Gagnon was given a summons at the time of the incident which ordered him to appear in court.

Gagnon, 53, was re-elected president of the Federation quebecoise de la faune in April 2007 and said one of his priorities was to encourage fishermen to be responsible.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We haven't got it so bad here eh?

[Jayfishin 63]

Corruption from the top down? ...sounds like Conrad Black. I wonder who he will try to blame?

20 fish limit for specks - don't want that here!

I'm with you Terry maybe we do have it better here. Haven't ever heard of the Minister of Natural Resources getting caught for poaching. Probably guilty of other things just because they are in politics.

I travelled up to Northern Quebec last july for work - George River. I inquired about fishing as who wouldn't in that area. If I wanted to fish for Artic Char I needed to buy a Quebec licence then a Nunavik licence and then I could only fish with barbless hooks. I was only there for three days and due to the fact I didn't come prepared just watched some locals net some during my visit. Supposed the hot spot was 70 miles south of me at the base of a hugh falls where the river narrows, but if I ever go back I will be prepared!

Jay

[arvey 154]

i think you have a mix of 2 worlds here,the old where natives can hunt and fish when they want and how they want.then there is everybody eles who have to abide by the regulations.when these rights were signed over to the natives there was no for thought into what the future would look like in 100 years.we have more people hunting and fishing now than ever before,and in a smaller area. land that use to be hunted on is now

cities or towns and with the coming of the snow machine and quads lakes are more accessable.the mix of these 2 worlds just don't mix.i think laws should be for everbody,and closed means closed.

arvey

[Gone8to1248 158]

Here is a question for you Canadians. Does the MNR, the people in charge of setting rules and regulations for hunting and fishing have any input or say so about treaty rights or do they have to go along with what ever the politicians who make those treaties say? It would also seem to me that any changes in the treaties should be voted on by all people concerned. Also does the money collected by the MNR for Fishing and Hunting licenses all go back to the MNR for Conservation use or does it go back to the main goverment and then passed out where ever they want? I'll bet if they could keep all the money they collected for licenses and fines the MNR would be the biggest branch of the goverment. As far as wardens go you have such a big area between towns to cover it would take a heck of a lot of them to cover it all, plus the equipment they would need to get into all the lakes people go to for fishing. They drive cars and trucks, we use ATV's and Snowmachines. Do they also have that equipment?

Treaty Rights have been a big issue in many areas including the states and I don't think there ever will be an answer to it that all people will agree on. Within any group you will have people that see things differently, good or bad if you might call it. There will always want something more than the others get and they will get it as long as people let them have it. If 10 people are shouting the same thing and are organixed they will be heard, if a thousand peope are against it and aren't organized then, well lets just say they ae silent. With all the different fishing clubs you have up there ever got organized and formed a head group to speak for youu all you would have a very large voice that can't be dismissed easily. Getting THAT done is the trick! You just need a bigger LOBBY to threaten the politicians with. THAT they understand, remember they are only looking for votes, not nessecarly what you want. Just my 2 cents worth on this matter.

Bernie

[Guest Big Moose]

I agree 100%.

I just hope that when I hit that river 'X' in the spring I don't witness any of the B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T going on because I don't think I will be able to conduct myself in a responsible non-violent manner.It may end up being a scene where I hand out an ol' fashion beat down on what in my eyes is nothing more than a POACHER.

They scream about rights but nowhere in these charters and rights have I read that it is legal to set up a freezer on the side of a river powered by a generator,Fill it to the top then sell the meat...Hmmm something fishy going on there.I personally think it's disgusting to just go out and RAPE the rivers and lakes for as many fish as possible,Then turn around and cry for more "rights" or permission to transfer your "rights" to another area because there's nothing left in your original area...

Lastly;I RESERVE THE "RIGHT" TO KICK YOUR A$$ LONG AND HARD IF I WITNESS THIS CRAP HAPPENING.