I am way confused now........

[Some Old Guy 968]

There is a thread about closing areas of a river due to "conservation" issues. No public input required. Ok ummm who made the call(s) to inform and then decide to close said portions because of conservation. What is the conservation issues? You are only allowed one steelhead and in some areas.

Seems there is plenty of thought, studies and what not considering conserving steelhead populations.

Then there is a response about giving a walleye angler a crankbait and telling him to go catch a bass and he most likely will. But fishing for steelhead is a different ball game. Then there is the statement about the pros and the jokers. That one killed me.

What is with this fish? Seems to be such value placed on these things. Incredible. Such value that only certain people can make judgement calls. Such value that you can place judgement on a person for saying they caught this many and then ask about a certain presentation.

Such value that in efforts to conserve these fish that certain individuals, agencies or clubs can shut down an area so these fish have a chance to survive or not get stressed out as it's to easy to hook them.

There are discussions on loogans, jokers and what ever other names or labels people who are just sarting out get called.

I have a hard time with all of this. I get emails telling me I shouldn't allow anything to do with steelhead posts as it will over expose these fish to people and the rivers will be crowded. I get emails saying I should allow posts as it's information sharing.

I, for one, read all the information and still see it the exact same way, year in and year out. It's the same old story and it's about conservation not conversation. Please don't let the word out that steelhead are running. Because we don't want our rivers like they are down south. Packed. Shoulder to shoulder.

So I look at it this way. I fish for walleye. That's my game. I like my game. Knock it down all you want. I'll chuckle but I still like walleye. I try to put a pattern together late spring to catch them. This involves many outings, talking with other anglers that like my game, reading and trial and error. This also includes asking and giving information. I try to pattern them in the summer. Then I try to pattern them in the fall then winter. I have been pretty successful in doing so over the years. I know quite a few other people who have done the exact same thing with walleye, bass, lake trout, specks and other fish. The only thing we have in common is we have not, cannot, and will not pattern them during their spawning runs. But guess what, we know exactly where they are when they spawn. We don't fish for them during the spawn. So I guess I'm not tagged as a "walleyer"

So I guess what I'm trying to say is the fish are in the rivers, no brainer there.

Oh as for the crankbait comment..... Give me one. Make it a bass crankbait. Hell make it a top water! I will catch a steelhead on it. The difference is I kinda sorta know when to throw it. Drop back steelhead (you know the ones only few people fish for because many forget that these fish go back to the big lake and rarely hear them talked about) are great fun to catch on crankbaits!!!

Roger

Roger

[Guest FreshwaterFisherman]

It's about putting time, effort, and intelligence into something you love. Walleye take just as much work to pattern as steelhead are to catch. The bass and walleye comment is to show that it is easier to branch out from walleye to bass, vice versa. I don't really know why YOU keep calling down walleye. I don't think anyone thinks less of walleye fisherman. I don't. My main point is. With any fish. Being good at catching them, consistently, takes years. Yet people expect to pick up a rod and be instant pros. Could go for walleye too. I'm sure you did not become as good as you are in your first year. It was a steelhead thread, that's why we are talking about steelhead.

[Some Old Guy 968]

I didn't call the walleye down..............

Roger

[Eyeguy 22]

_{Mmmmmmmm....walleye}

[Guest FreshwaterFisherman]

Okay. Well I just don't understand why we are always comparing trout and walleye...

[Some Old Guy 968]

Yes mmmmm walleye.

I'm just saying that there is plenty of political B.S. that comes along with Steelheading. And the woes and the worries about conservation of these fish and some the anglers that email me and that I talk to. I try to help new people with rigging as I work at DnR. and all I know are the very basics of trying to catch a spawn run steelhead.

What I do find (by listening) is not so much as rigging, is the travel routes of these fish. Such as resting areas where they are more easily caught. Which then makes me think that if you know how to fish a specific tailout for example, you can do quite well. But to try to explain that is quite hard.

This is what I find hard to comprehend. I get told that we shouldn't say when the fish are on their spawning run in the rivers. The ones that head down there are finding out for themselves and don't want to have crowded conditions and they emphasize about conserving the steelhead while they are on their spawning run as fish hooked and played out stresses them out. I was actually asked/told that I should shut this board down this time of year so it doesn't get talked about. But if there is so much talk about conservation just do what is done with many other species of valued fish when they spawn (or as I'm told, I love this one, we are not catching them while they are spawning. We are catching them on the way to the spawning grounds, redds, beds).

Roger

Roger

[Some Old Guy 968]

Great.............. I got my computer taken away. I'm sorry.

[ghart 55]

To me, the native species should always take precendance - and they do in my opinion.

Rainbow are an introduced species plain and simple, the same as the salmon.

Introduced species are open during their spawning runs - when they are highly vulnerable. The reduced limits of one is just a number game. There are for more walleye and they produce faster, therefore you can take more. Rainbow have smaller populations therefore that one fish you are allowed is likely the equivalent on the population as taking far more walleye. Especially when taken during the spawn.

I love trolling for open water rainbows - nothing like seeing a 4-5lb rainbow break the water before you even realize its hoooked. Last year I fished a creek a grand total of twice. We had to much fun catching them on spoons earlier and later in the summer.

But that is me - otheres enjoy the stalking of the rainbow in the rivers - effectively that is what the steelheaders are doing, they stalk the fish and entice them to hit. Kinda like big game stalking vs tree stand hunting.

I disregard the "hooligans" of fishing as they are accross all species and will always be there.

That being said I have.... realized a couple things since moving here which are illogical.

There is a larger proportion of fishermen in NW Ontario who think it is counter productive to share fishing information. I said higher percentage, not all. Ive been in boats where ive been told not to show the catch as we disembark at the boat launch, ive seen people through fish behind trees and them deny they were catching anything. Its kinda funny .. then you realize - its counter productive.

If you want a species of fish conserved, you need the fishing liscenses to pay for it. In order to get the liscenses, the people need to fish and sorry to say in most cases they have to catch something. Thats just the way it is - alot of todays younger generations, did not grow up with the patience most of us oler people do - they grew up with video games, internet, instant gratification. To get them hooked on fishing - they need to catch fish.

The other problems here are the simple number of different species - all with different methods of catching.

With rainbow in particular, the experts say they are very hard to catch, then by Rogers own admissions here every year, those same experts (NOT ALL, SOME) are complaining and want the board shut down to "conserve" the species. So which is it?? are they so hard to catch that you need practice practice practice or are they so easy to catch the mere whisper of steelhead running is enough to decimate the population?

Again however this hiding the steelhead run is counter productive - you need the liscenses to supprt conservation. With a limited rainbow run, how is hiding going to increase liscense sales?

If you want to conserve the species - you need the government to see a valuable fishery - the value in fishing comes from the number of people fishing. The more people fishing, the more value, the more money for conservation.

Then theres tourism - if visitors new there were steelhead in the rivers - and were avid steelheaders where they are from - Im pretty sure theyd go buy or rent some equipment/buy a liscense, etc etc.

Ive seen the people searching for steelhead rivers in NW Ontario, Lake Superior in Google to my websites - the majority arent local, so why are they looking? Right now those are the bulk search traffic to one of my sites, and I for one am happy to tell them where they can go to catch fish and when to fish.

Well thats all for my rant for now - think ill go for a drive and look for that other more sought after rainbow species - rainbow smelt :-). in packs of 100 they put up quite a fight

[Lyle Reiner 174]

I love lamp

[Guest Wes]

That's ok Roger, we know you walleye anglers get confused easily.

The reason you are not catching walleye when they spawn is because they are out of season. No way to fancy that one up. Pretty cut and dry. The season usually open up around this coming weekend every year.

[wampa 18]

"Back in my day...I had to walk upriver, both ways, barefoot."

Every year it is the same thing. Self proclaimed "Pros" complaining about anyone "not putting in the miles,hours,day ect ect ect.". As if everyone who owns a rod reads this forum (no offence Roger lol) and is going to head out fishing poaching in "your" secret spots. Unfortunately it comes off sounding like greed instead of conservation. As a person who loves to fish for steelhead, I have to completely agree with Roger on this one. "Shut down the board, don't say a word, I want these fish all to myself because I care about them more than you and I spent money on gas and you didn't" Time to suck it up and deal with the fact that technology has changed the game and people are going to share information whether you like it or not. Most if not all other forums I have visited are open and friendly with an active exchange of information. This one seems to be the exception when it comes to posting info.

[Guest FreshwaterFisherman]

Ugh this is all so exhausting.

[Squaretail 38]

My opinion is the more information a young angler has about fishing in general or a specific species the better. I find these days everyone wants To catch fish but not to many want to respect the fisheries or the work that goes in to protect all species of fish. When I was a young angler staring out I admit I wanted to catch fish and harvest everything I caught legally. But once your passion grows for fishing you learn to respect what we have at our doorstep. Whether the fish is native or intorduced the mnr do there job to keep fish populations at a targeted level Therefore if you have secret spots and techniques you don't want to have anyone know about don't post it. But if other people post about your secret spots then it's not to secret Is it.

[gsambray 172]

Heres were i might pee off some people but oh well. Just generalize it. A fish is a fish. Who cares species as long as your out having fun and doing what you love. I grew up fishing walleye and started fishing bows all by myself. Does it really matter...no i dont think so. I cone to this site to share. As in stories, tactics, tips, tricks and all that stuff. If i see something i dont agree with i either add my opinion or pass the thread by and dont look at it. But anyways im going fishing.

Gord

[eddylives 99]

I refuse to place steelhead on a pedestal above any other fish.......its just another targeted species natural or not. To shut down a forum so people can't talk about them is.......well......laughable lol. Better shut down the whole forum as it is sharing information on catching fish. 20 plus years ago I targeted steely's every spring and did very well. Now I target other species depending on where I am fishing. They deserve the same attention as any other fish.

[WalleyeWayne 137]

It seems every year I've been a member of this site I read the same BS about steelhead fishing. Walleye had been been my main target fish, but I've also been fishing steelhead in local rivers, starting with the Neebing River since I was 10 yrs old. My Grandmother had a camp on Lake Superior and we used to walk the railway tracks fishing the rivers and streams that poured into Superior. There were always those that professed to be the caretakers of the Steelhead fishery - but so what? Who cares? Now, we have websites where we can share (should one choose) information but again the self-professed steelhead caretakers feel the need to pressure people to not post information. Roger, I'm pretty certain interest in this site would diminish if sharing information on any species was censored. I know if I couldn't find it here, I would look elsewhere. Last year we had a lot of noise about the walleye fishery being decimated by fishing in the Savanne River the 1st week in April. It's always out there about something. Here's hoping you don't decide to censor!

[Jayfishin 63]

Well if its an open season, for any whatever type of fish, at whatever time of year, it should be okay to post about fishing related info on Thunderbayfishing.com. Cause isn`t that the point of this board?

If the steelheaders don't like it then get MNR to close season while fish are spawning in the rivers, just like other species ie. walleye. Learn how to catch them at other locations at other times of the year. My two cents....;

Jay

[Wade O. 44]

Lyle do you really love lamp or are you just saying you love lamp cause you see it.......that really got outta hand quickly!

[Some Old Guy 968]

LAMP. I think that stands for LeakyAlumacraftMainPlug.

Roger

[uncle 19]

LAMP. I think that stands for LeakyAlumacraftMainPlug.

Roger

Local Anglers Missing Point.

[Wade O. 44]

Actually when you go to southern Ontario there is a closed season there and it doesn't open until the fish are on their way down. Just sayin!

[Guest TerryK]

I don't understand what you have against steelhead, or steelhead anglers for that matter Roger, but hey that's your perogative I guess.

The closed for conservation issue applies to ALL game fish. In laymans terms, a conservation issue is if a situation arises that the fish are put at un unfair advantage the MNR has the authority to take immediate action. No legislation needed, the local office makes the call based on evidence gathered. The sections closed permanently on these streams were barriers to migration that funneled many fish into a pool 20 feet long, 10 feet wide and at the time the areas were closed there were 6-10 fishermen lining this small hole daily. The fish didn't stand a chance. They were being repeatedly being foul hooked, handled and rolled in the dirt, then released if not killed.

The same action was taken on the Black Bay and Black Sturgeon River when the Walleye population collaped. How is the steelhead issue different?

[spindilla1 42]

Actually when you go to southern Ontario there is a closed season there and it doesn't open until the fish are on their way down. Just sayin!

Actually it's open all year south of the CN tracks which allows anglers to target them while they are staging to spawn, anglers can even get them in the river fall, winter and spring south of the CN tracks. Creeks like Oshawa and Wilmot have way more than enough river for all year open season fishing to get them before they even reach upper stretches and some bigger fish 20+lbs cannot even get that far to spawn which leaves a primary DNA specimen vulnerable to the angler. To make matters worse rivers down south barely freeze anymore so the rivers are actually fish able all year long!

There is approximately 10 million people in the GTA and all the people that come from Quebec because they don't have much creeks or steelhead fishing in general, down south is getting worse and worse every year with lower water levels as well. Significant effort has been put into play in the credit and nottawasaga, through conservation methods and stocking down south they are starting to see a return spawn of Atlantic salmon. All and all Roger, trout are not on a higher tier than walleyes just that walleyes have a protected season as rainbows do not. We don't fish walleyes while they are spawning however people are currently drifting rivers and creeks while the bows just started to spawn and I'm sure that people will continue to fish during the entire spawning period. Not to mention one of the best baits for steelhead is their own eggs, I don't see walleye anglers using walleye eggs for bait!

The gene that trout have is amazing we can manipulate it with different strains to survive in many ways, cross breeds like the skamania or as Americans like to call them skamaniak's are an amazing fighting fish. Genetic modification of trout can happen naturally, just put them into a different environment and see how well they adapt. Walleye on the other hand cannot live in a dead lake and they need way too much food to survive, trout can as we see from our many stocked lakes here in Tbay. Speaking from a background in genetic engineering & medical engineering the gene trout have is easier to work with, guys donate millions down south to see their home creek harbor trout in them again and anyone who knows a thing or two about fish genetics & breeding will agree with me. Having said this more money is put into trout this is why people view them on a higher tier, IMO they are no different from rock bass a fish is a fish but when a fish can do what a trout does and survive in rivers across the globe including rivers and I have witnessed as far south as Argentina I think they deserve the respect and money they get from conservation authorities here in Canada.

[fisherdude 69]

shouldnt we close the forum because of the smelt posts? They don't even stand a chance, you can use a net! Lol cya guys on the rivers. If its legal then albeit have at it.

[Wade O. 44]

shouldnt we close the forum because of the smelt posts? They don't even stand a chance, you can use a net! Lol cya guys on the rivers. If its legal then albeit have at it.

Aren't smelts actually an invasive species though? I thought that is what started the whole netting for them?

Help control the pet population have your pet spayed or neutered - Bob Barker