Steelhead Fishing- Subtlety Please!

[Domer 103]

I guess I might as well get my two cents in too. This topic is hard to decide which side to be on. My beliefs on Catch and Release are like most. Some species of fish cannot take the pressure of anglers filling limits going home and repeating the process. It's these so called fisherman that put a damper on our fisheries. I read everyone's post on this topic and I have to agree with some and disagree with others. First thing first, If I want to tell someone where he can have some success for any species of fish I have every right too. Nobody on this earth we live on will be able to persuade me otherwise. Life is too damn short to keep someone else from enjoying (so called) secret spots. We are blessed in the North to have all this beautiful country, why fight over stupid things. I have learned over the years that some fisherman are so anal about there (Secret Brook Trout) lakes that I have made a point steering them in the right direction. This website is for everyone to enjoy and trade fishing stories. If a guy wants to post pictures he shouldn't have to worry about the next guy giving him crap because the background gives away a certain detail or the rock on the shore or the white gotch in the tree. I would be pretty pissed off if the picture I submitted was doctored up and filled in. This is a free country, and we should concentrate on helping each other out and not crapping on a guy for sharing spots. The point brought up about strictly Catch and Release is simply not good enough. There are too many greedy "people" out there. Notice the emphasis on people. These are not fisherman or anglers. MEAT HUNTERS. In order to police this or get your numbers back I think I will have to agree with big moose, you need to shut it down for a few years and let the numbers fight their way back. I realize there are so many avid steelhead fisherman but desperate times call for desperate measures. In order to see a change, a change has to be done. I guess I look at the cancelation of the spring bear as a prime example. The number of bears has ballooned to uncontrolable numbers. You can't even go fishing anymore with a disturbance. All I am trying to say is that the MNR needs to step in and interveen. Maybe that can save this fishery for those who cherish it. I would support this move in every step of the way as it can only make this species come back stronger.

Just remember this is only my opinion, I know that some of you probably don't agree but it is every anglers god given right to voice their concerns or thoughts. These issues will only get better if we step in and make them better. Next time someone sees a person breaking the rules or has some disregard for the law send them over my way or let me know. Maybe the law is not good enough and we need to take matters into our own hands. I know this probably sounds harsh or barbaric but its time we take the bull by the horn and do something about it.

Thanks

Domenic

[arvey 154]

i wasn't going to wade into this subject because it's a touchie one,but a certain senario happened and it hits close to home on this thread.

if you remember on the old board a couple of tv.personalities ended up in town.they had some time and

wanted to do a fishing show,so they headed out to a local favorite spot and did a show.they named the lake on tv,and some of the people on this board where peeved.now just this past summer a local writer and fisherman did a full page article for the newspaper on the same lake named it talked tatic and had some freinds along.if you seen it it came with pictures to boot. i seen it read it and thought well lets watch the board for some feed back on this one and nobody said anything.neither of these cases bother me and i don't think they where in the wrong. it seems that it all depends on who you are when sharing info. if your joe blow and you let something out your going to get kicked around.

lets face it we all have our secrets,bass fishermen,walleye fisherman,speck fisherman,and so on.as for rudeness we all have run accross it in hunting and fishing.

arvey

[Gone8to1248 158]

One thing I learnned while I was up there this trip is that the Steelhead sit below the spawnning Salmon and eat thier eggs as they spawn. So if someone is you using spawn sacks for bait your chances are pretty good that your going to catch a lot of Steelhead in the proccess by "ACCIDENT". I know while up on the Nipigon with Randy there was a boat that kept drifting over the same spot with spawn sacks and caught a couple of fishh each time that were probrably Steelhead. Even if you release them how many wont make it anyway? I know this would never happen but what if they closed the Salmon fishing during spawnning time in the rivers to protect the accidental catching of Steelhead? Only a thought here and would like to hear back why that wouldn't help.

Gone8to1248

P.S. I agree that if your going to catch and release you should use a single barbless hook so as to not have to ever touch the fish.

[Guest TerryK]

I need to clarify something here. While we have had a drought for 4 out of the last five years, which has been proven to have adversely affected the year class numbers of rainbow trout from those years, we did have a VERY good year mixed in there (2004). Large numbers of those fish returned this spring (so many that fully 50% of the Portage Creek study fish were 2004 fish). The population overall is fairly good, but with earlier year class fish growing old and dieing, the 2004 fish are going to be very important to the future generations since we are missing a large percentage of 02' 03' 05 and 06' fish. (correct me if I'm wrong on the years Jon! Yes we do need to be careful with harvested numbers, and we need to be careful handling fish, but we can still pursue our passion without fear of killing off the species locally. Management and habitat conservation are the keys, not a closed fishery.

With the Portage study, we can clearly see what reduced or zero harvest can do but it is totally unnecessary to close the fishery. With proper management and habitat conservation we can expect the fish themselves to maintain a healthy population. We have a pretty unique, self sustaining steelhead fishery here on the north shore that is the envy of fishermen and biologists from all over the great lakes. (emphasis on "self sustaining") Our fish are truly wild rainbow trout from mostly wild streams. Personally I believe the MNR and the NSSA are doing an amazing job of managing and conserving this fishery and should be applauded for their efforts over the years.

If you haven't already done so, read the Portage Creek study data. Look closely at the graphs and data that Jon George and his team have compiled over the last 15 years. You'll be amazed at how detailed and thorough it is. I guarantee if you study all the info carefully, you will learn a TON about what makes rainbow trout tick!

PS: get out to an North Shore Steelhead Assn. meeting and join up. It's only $10.00 and you can have a voice in future plans and studies.

Portage Creek Study data here.

[Guest Big Moose]

Thanks for posting the link to the study Terry.I plan on being at the next meeting to get in on the goins on.

[grumpy 2]

One thing I learnned while I was up there this trip is that the Steelhead sit below the spawnning Salmon and eat thier eggs as they spawn. So if someone is you using spawn sacks for bait your chances are pretty good that your going to catch a lot of Steelhead in the proccess by "ACCIDENT". I know while up on the Nipigon with Randy there was a boat that kept drifting over the same spot with spawn sacks and caught a couple of fishh each time that were probrably Steelhead. Even if you release them how many wont make it anyway? I know this would never happen but what if they closed the Salmon fishing during spawnning time in the rivers to protect the accidental catching of Steelhead? Only a thought here and would like to hear back why that wouldn't help.

Gone8to1248

P.S. I agree that if your going to catch and release you should use a single barbless hook so as to not have to ever touch the fish.

I think that a fish caught on a spawn sack has a much better chance of survival than one caught on a rapala! and that an Angler using a spawn sack would be targeting Steelhead and be incidently catching Salmon. The main problem is the anglers targeting Salmon and incidently catching brook trout and steelhead with multi prong hooks.

Why do angler's target half dead Salmon anyways?

With a single hook you do not have to touch the fish to release it.

With a single hook you don’t have to rip their lips off to release it either.

Spawn works better than yarn but this time of year I find no difference. With the right presentation yarn will work just as well. Killing a fish for its eggs should be illegal. From what I understand Southern Ontario is experiancing a huge problem with "GUT AND CHUCK" several hundred salmon are found in trash cans. The only thing missing are thier eggs.

[Guest Wes]

...There are too many greedy "people" out there. Notice the emphasis on people. These are not fisherman or anglers. MEAT HUNTERS. In order to police this or get your numbers back I think I will have to agree with big moose, you need to shut it down for a few years and let the numbers fight their way back....

So if these greedy people take fish in a C&R fishery, they are poaching. Poachers will take fish even if the fishery is closed, so whats the difference. At least the law abiding anglers can still fish for sport and enjoyment right? What needs to be done is a little riverside policing.

High pathetically speaking, if the fishery went C&R then it would need to be enforced by the CO's and anglers. Yes I know the CO's are spread rather thin up here and there will be very few visits to the rivers y the CO's but that doesn't stop us from taking photos, and taking names/plate numbers.

Just remember this is only my opinion, I know that some of you probably don't agree but it is every anglers god given right to voice their concerns or thoughts. These issues will only get better if we step in and make them better. Next time someone sees a person breaking the rules or has some disregard for the law send them over my way or let me know. Maybe the law is not good enough and we need to take matters into our own hands. I know this probably sounds harsh or barbaric but its time we take the bull by the horn and do something about it.

Thanks

Domenic

Thats the beauty of the internet. Your opinion is even easier to voice. No one is stopping you. Personally, I encourage it. Even though I post with my real name, I am not going to stop posting my thoughts.

[NWO Fishing Bum 2]

A few things...

The biology/research side of the MNR factors in the range of behaviour in fishermen when determining/updating the regulations, and these things are monitored as per an adaptive management approach. Part of the problem here is remember these are legal regulations (i.e., they require the same process as all other provincial regulation.....local research and tests, compiling in Peterborough, writing for the science-policy process and then... <cough> through Toronto. We've in fact seen a recent desire to reduce the frequency of new regulations, not to mention not getting out this year's reg's as originally planned. SO...what that means is 3-year or 4-year droughts, severe changes in water flow characteristics or angling pressure to a given fishery, or other factors which mitigate in a relatively short timeframe are very difficult to account for in determining appropriate regulations.

Even once regulations are changed, there is then the education and enforcement aspects....when everyone is trying to determine whether or not faith-based schools are going to receive provincial funding, getting more fishery enforcement is unlikely. A combination of education, optimizing enforcement, and peer-enforcement (fellow angler enforcement) of the regulations is key. But more importantly is educating 'beyond the regulations', much like we are doing here...the more individuals are aware of factors like drought, poor year classes, etc. the better off the fishery and the sportfishery will be.

Oh, and Wes...I love reading your posts...high pathetically or hypothetically....regardless, you make good points.

NWO Fishing Bum

NWO Fishing Bum

[Guest Wes]

haha... for the life of me I couldn't figure out how to spell that word, even the correct spelling doesn't look right to me. I didn't have a dictionary handy either. So I spelled it so people would at least figure out what I was trying to say. The spell checker installed in this editor didn't give me the right spelling either.

So basically it all boils down to voting the right party, so the MNR gets more $. then this stuff will possibly get done.

For now I guess I can do my part and C&R for a few years. This is going to hurt, but I am sure I will get over it.

I don't car who you are, I am not going to stop hunting Bald Eagles though...

Few more weeks from now, when the salmon start washing up on shore, BOO YAA plenty of eagles then...hahaha

[Guest TerryK]

I'm wondering if you read my last post wes?

One thing about single hooks. When targeting steelhead, I often change out the trebles on my lures to singles or in the case of minnow imitations, two singles. They seem to hook up as well as a gang of trebles and actually make the lure less prone to tangling and such. It costs next to nothing to do and you'll feel better about catching "incidental" fish.

[GC 54 31]

NWO Bum, we saved you a seat at the SSS draw the other night, but you were a no show. I bet you were out buying a bigger outboard. lol

Actually, just a reminder, if you or anyone else are toying with the idea of signing up for the 2008 SSS, you best get your butt in gear. It will soon have a full field of entrants.

[grumpy 2]

NWO Bum, we saved you a seat at the SSS draw the other night, but you were a no show. I bet you were out buying a bigger outboard. lol

Actually, just a reminder, if you or anyone else are toying with the idea of signing up for the 2008 SSS, you best get your butt in gear. It will soon have a full field of entrants.

George this is completly off topic.

[Guest Wes]

I'm wondering if you read my last post wes?

Yes I did, what are you getting at? I am the one agreeing that closing the fishery isn't the answer. A 0 limit is. Like others have said, changing the regs is just too difficult when it's just for a few years.

So if these greedy people take fish in a C&R fishery, they are poaching. Poachers will take fish even if the fishery is closed, so whats the difference. At least the law abiding anglers can still fish for sport and enjoyment right? What needs to be done is a little riverside policing...

One thing about single hooks. When targeting steelhead, I often change out the trebles on my lures to singles or in the case of minnow imitations, two singles. They seem to hook up as well as a gang of trebles and actually make the lure less prone to tangling and such. It costs next to nothing to do and you'll feel better about catching "incidental" fish.

I heading out this weekend. What hooks do you use? This time I am bring some hardware along with my usual gear. I am going to swap out for singles and see how it goes.

[Guest TerryK]

I was referring to this:

So basically it all boils down to voting the right party, so the MNR gets more $. then this stuff will possibly get done.

Just messing with you a bit wes!

I was referring to this:

So basically it all boils down to voting the right party, so the MNR gets more $. then this stuff will possibly get done.

Just messing with you a bit wes!

I use short or medium shank, straight eye hooks, one size bigger than the original treble. Turn up or turn down eyes will get tangled.