Brook trout, Coaster, Nipigon strain.......

[Guest BannedCore]

Are not all these fish the same? Before we had Dams on the Nipigon River didn't Brook trout move through the whole system? And what happens to Brookies from inland lakes and streams that also feed Lake Nipigon and Superior? This might sound silly but aren't they all the same, and if not do they inter breed? I really am a loogan. lol.

[fishman1 164]

Are not all these fish the same? Before we had Dams on the Nipigon River didn't Brook trout move through the whole system? And what happens to Brookies from inland lakes and streams that also feed Lake Nipigon and Superior? This might sound silly but aren't they all the same, and if not do they inter breed? I really am a loogan. lol.

dear hardcore-- the locals in the nipigon area all agree that the brook trout fishery has never been better. this is due to good fishery management. they seem to be doing fine in the river competing against the salmon. i think you missed your calling, you should have been a biologist.

[Guest Dan]

dear hardcore-- the locals in the nipigon area all agree that the brook trout fishery has never been better. this is due to good fishery management. they seem to be doing fine in the river competing against the salmon. i think you missed your calling, you should have been a biologist.

You didn't really answer any of hardcores questions, so, although I'm not an expert, I'll do my best to answer them.

The term "coasters" refers to Lake Superior Brook Trout. They can often be found cruising the shore lines, or coasts, hence the name. There was never any migration between Lake Superior and Lake Nipigon even before the hydro dams. Huge waterfalls made that impossible.

The Nipigon tribs have their own habitat and have no relevance to the Nipigon Strain as far as I know. There may be a few wanderers either way but it's not a significant factor as far as I know.

Finally, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the Nipigon strain has been studied and found to be no different that any other strain of Brook Trout. From what I've read anyways. They grow to such mammoth proportions because they live in the perfect environment.

[Guest Beamer]

They also live longer then other strains. Genetically they are all the same from what I have been told. The little stream fish in the Northshore/Nipigon tributaries can be the parents of huge coasters in the big lake, some stay in the little streams and bigger rivers while others for reason unknown leave the stream and live in the lake. The same can be true for Lake Nipigon fish which to some people are also referred to as coasters, the term simply applies to their habit of crusing the shore (coast) of the biggest lakes.

Beamer

[Guest Dan]

They also live longer then other strains.

I'm very much interested in that statement Beamer. What is the average maximum age of Nipigon strain Brook Trout compared to any other strain? What age would a 23 to 24 inch Nipigon Brook Trout be?

[Guest Beamer]

I'm very much interested in that statement Beamer. What is the average maximum age of Nipigon strain Brook Trout compared to any other strain? What age would a 23 to 24 inch Nipigon Brook Trout be?

Brooktrout generally live about 5 years maximum, the Nipigon strain are known to exceed that and can live to 8 years or more. That is why they are very desirable as hatchery stock due to their size and life expectancy. As far as age versus size, that can be tricky I have tagged female brooktrout at around the 20" mark then recaptured them several years later and they haven't grown a milimeter, as it has been explained to me some of the older more prolific spawners sometime put all of their energy towards gonad production instead of growth. I have also seen other females during the same time period grow 7 inches or more sometimes doubling their weight, as far as age goes the samples I have collected (scales) still need to be aged, I have collected 5 years worth. Scales are not the best way to age brooktrout but is the least offensive to the fish, fin rays are better but requires cutting the fin close to the body and last and most accurate is aging the otolith which requires killing the fish. It will be very interesting to see the ages of the fish I sampled, some I believe will be suprising. I will post some examples of what I mentioned above to show some interesting comparisons. What age would a 23-24 inch fish be I don't know for sure until they age the samples my guess would be between 5-8 years. I believe there is a wide variation in sizes versus age by what I have noted and again aging will explain this.

Beamer

[Castnblast 86]

Hey Randy...how many BT have you sampled in the past 5 years?

[Guest Dan]

Thanks Randy. I'd be interested in seeing some of the scale sample results when they are available.

[Guest Beamer]

Hey Randy...how many BT have you sampled in the past 5 years?

I have tagged over 400 and sampled around half or about 200, I quit sampling once temps rise above 50 degrees F each year to prevent the chance of disease. The number of recaptures and their condition proves this out.This year I sampled 65 fish before temperatures got too high, I got 79 fish in 71 rod hours 33 were recaptures from previous seasons, this is the highest recapture rate in the past 5 years. There was also a high percentage of the fish being 20 inches or better with 32 fish 20 inches or bigger 19 fish 22 inches or better with the longest fish of the year being 25 inch, the heaviest fish was less than 24" and as always was female.

Beamer

[Guest fish_on]

Brooktrout generally live about 5 years maximum, the Nipigon strain are known to exceed that and can live to 8 years or more. That is why they are very desirable as hatchery stock due to their size and life expectancy. As far as age versus size, that can be tricky I have tagged female brooktrout at around the 20" mark then recaptured them several years later and they haven't grown a milimeter, as it has been explained to me some of the older more prolific spawners sometime put all of their energy towards gonad production instead of growth. I have also seen other females during the same time period grow 7 inches or more sometimes doubling their weight, as far as age goes the samples I have collected (scales) still need to be aged, I have collected 5 years worth. Scales are not the best way to age brooktrout but is the least offensive to the fish, fin rays are better but requires cutting the fin close to the body and last and most accurate is aging the otolith which requires killing the fish. It will be very interesting to see the ages of the fish I sampled, some I believe will be suprising. I will post some examples of what I mentioned above to show some interesting comparisons. What age would a 23-24 inch fish be I don't know for sure until they age the samples my guess would be between 5-8 years. I believe there is a wide variation in sizes versus age by what I have noted and again aging will explain this.

Beamer

I would have to say the Nipigon has the world record and great area to fish but to say they live longer might be a bit much

[Guest Beamer]

I would have to say the Nipigon has the world record and great area to fish but to say they live longer might be a bit much

They have been aged older by MNR staff

[Guest TerryK]

I would have to say the Nipigon has the world record and great area to fish but to say they live longer might be a bit much

Umm......Randy has done more than a few years of science along side the MNR and if he says they live longer then you can bet your rear end they live longer.

[Guest fish_on]

Umm......Randy has done more than a few years of science along side the MNR and if he says they live longer then you can bet your rear end they live longer.

I would have to say i have never seen any publication proving this fact, many trout can live up to 9 years anyways they are fun to catch

[Some Old Guy 968]

'Brooktrout generally live about 5 years maximum, the Nipigon strain are known to exceed that and can live to 8 years or more."

Ya hoo! We agree!

Roger

[Guest TerryK]

I would have to say i have never seen any publication proving this fact, many trout can live up to 9 years anyways they are fun to catch

Yes, some trout can, but usually not Brook Trout. The Nipigon strain is unique in that respect. If you do a little research, I guarantee you'll find some published science on the subject.

[Guest fish_on]

Yes, some trout can, but usually not Brook Trout. The Nipigon strain is unique in that respect. If you do a little research, I guarantee you'll find some published science on the subject.

Terry would love to read about it could you steer me in the right direction, on a different topic is the record a Coasters brook as some say or a residence brook of the nipigon?

[Some Old Guy 968]

If you would like to read through Al's Site it has great info there.

Roger

[Guest fish_on]

If you would like to read through Al's Site it has great info there.

Roger

Thx for site roger, on a different note are you updated your stocking records with 2008 numbers, or if you did could you let me know where it is located thx

[troutchaser29 0]

dear hardcore-- the locals in the nipigon area all agree that the brook trout fishery has never been better. this is due to good fishery management. they seem to be doing fine in the river competing against the salmon. i think you missed your calling, you should have been a biologist.

I would say that things may seem ok SO FAR. Keep in mind that salmon have been there for a very short time (on an evolutionary time scale), just as rainbows, and the effect on the residents (brookies and otherwise) is still unpredictable.

I'm not arguing anyones comments, I'm just stating that salmon are still 'young to the area' and to think their presence won't affect such a finicky spawner like the spec seems a bit hopeful.

hopefully time proves my pessimism wrong!

Travis

[Guest BannedCore]

Guys, thanks for the input it has been educational and I don't feel stupid about posting the question. I saw a Brook trout caught on the weekend that was 24" with a 15" girth and it was only 6 pounds. Should not this fish been 7 pounds plus? Also it was a male.

[Guest Beamer]

Guys, thanks for the input it has been educational and I don't feel stupid about posting the question. I saw a Brook trout caught on the weekend that was 24" with a 15" girth and it was only 6 pounds. Should not this fish been 7 pounds plus? Also it was a male.

Not suprising, the males while nicer looking are almost always lighter than females. The heaviest fish are always females from my experience, the longest fish for me this year were males the heaviest were all female with fish from 21-24 inch beating out the longer ones in weight. There are exceptions with some males being fat also but as a rule females are heavier IMO, here are three fish 22/23" class and there is a 2-3 lb difference from heaviest to lightest. There are big variations in size shape and color within the same area

[Guest TerryK]

Damn Randy, I never get tired of looking at your pictures of big Brookies.

[Guest Dan]

Not suprising, the males while nicer looking are almost always lighter than females.

Interesting thoughts Beamer. Nick Karas' book "Brook Trout", which I consider the bible of modern day Brook Trout facts, claims that unlike most species, the male Brook Trout grows to be the largest and heaviest of the species. I tend to agree with that. The area that you fish is a "fish bowl" in a sense, and that may be true there. But overall, I'd have to say that the largest/heaviest Brook Trout that I've seen have been males. My conclusion is based on both Hudson Bay tributary fish as well as Nipigon strain fish. I agree with Mr. Karas.

[Guest Beamer]

Interesting thoughts Beamer. Nick Karas' book "Brook Trout", which I consider the bible of modern day Brook Trout facts, claims that unlike most species, the male Brook Trout grows to be the largest and heaviest of the species. I tend to agree with that. The area that you fish is a "fish bowl" in a sense, and that may be true there. But overall, I'd have to say that the largest/heaviest Brook Trout that I've seen have been males. My conclusion is based on both Hudson Bay tributary fish as well as Nipigon strain fish. I agree with Mr. Karas.

It is a pretty big fish bowl, I have high lighted some interesting points below

Beamer

The World Record Brook Trout

The True story of the World Record Brook Trout

(published in Outdoor Canada )

It’s the stuff of legend, the target of skeptics and an intriguing reminder of a bygone era. What else would you expect from an 89-year-old world record? The true story behind angling’s most talked about brook trout

Nature, meanwhile, had its own agenda. As the doctor told the Fort William Times Journal 35 years later, just a year before his death, the river on the 21st of July, 1915, was “covered with brown flies,” and the trout were feeding aggressively. “I’d been fishing with a minnow,” he said. “The bait had barely settled below the surface when the big fellow struck.” Cook called immediately for a net, and was reported to have spent 15 minutes bringing the giant fish to shore.

“The big fellow” was in fact a female, but the phrase was nonetheless well chosen, in that the fish was big not just in size—it would also generate one of the biggest and most controversial fish tales ever.

By the extraordinary standards of the Nipigon River, Cook’s brookie was, in fact, not entirely the exception it might have seemed. Brook trout as big as 10 pounds have been taken from the river and from Lake Nipigon over the years—many of them recorded by government or conservation authorities. It is little known, moreover, that several brook trout even larger than Cook’s have been pulled from northern Lake Nipigon in recent decades—although not on a hook.

Several times during the late 1960s and into the 1970s, local officers from Ontario’s Ministry of Natural Resources set out pond nets, live-trapping male brook trout to place with females at the Dorion fish hatchery during spawning time. “We wanted to keep the wild Nipigon strain alive in the hatchery breeding,” says Bernie Wall, who assisted the late MNR biologist Paul Bougey with the program. On occasion, Bougey also netted large females whose eggs were milked into reservoirs and taken to the hatchery. “I myself saw 10- and 11-pounders,” says Wall. “But Paul told me he’d netted females that ran 16 or more pounds. In other words, bigger than Dr. Cook’s.”

[Guest Dan]

Ah yes. The old "The MNR has netted world record fish" in this lake, or that lake. I've read/heard those stories from about just about every lake on the planet for as long as I can remember. If you really want some fun reading, I have government documents at home that claim a 21 lb. Nipigon Brook Trout was caught in Nipigon in the the 70's.

I read the article that you're quoting. I've been a subscriber since the mid 70's. Great magazine.