OPG is to Blame

[Guest Run N Gun]

Just like many of the other lakes in our region Kashabowie is also low. OPG needs to seriously re-evaluate their water management in this region as I believe many of the lakes will not recover this year.

Kashabowie dam remains open and for what reason? Last I checked Shebandowan is down a foot at the most and the campers there are able to keep their boats tied up to their docks, everyone at Kash needs to trailer their boat to and from the public launch every time they want to head out fishing. This is sad especailly when you pay a year docking fee, should get OPG to pay for that!

Pictures attached show the water level is down 5ft in depth and thats being conservative as it's more like 6-7ft in water depth.

I usually only have 2-3 feet of beach.

[Guest Bronzeback]

I completely understand your concern with the water levels, and perhaps OPG plays some part, but the water in all lakes is way down this year and Shebandowan is no exception. It is down at least 3 feet if not more as well. Perhaps mother nature is the biggest culprit... and I doubt she will be paying anybody's docking fee any time soon.

[Guest lacman]

Just like many of the other lakes in our region Kashabowie is also low. OPG needs to seriously re-evaluate their water management in this region as I believe many of the lakes will not recover this year.

Kashabowie dam remains open and for what reason? Last I checked Shebandowan is down a foot at the most and the campers there are able to keep their boats tied up to their docks, everyone at Kash needs to trailer their boat to and from the public launch every time they want to head out fishing. This is sad especailly when you pay a year docking fee, should get OPG to pay for that!

Pictures attached show the water level is down 5ft in depth and thats being conservative as it's more like 6-7ft in water depth.

I usually only have 2-3 feet of beach.

Last I checked the dam at Kash is closed and has been for some time. There is leakage from the logs, but that's it.

Lac is down quite a bit as are many other lakes. I would say mother nature is to blame for this one. Water management plans are decided by OPG, MNR, and all other stake holders which in many cases include campers associations, remote outfitters etc etc. They come up with the best plan they can which is agreed by ALL parties. OPG simply can't just take all the water and make power with it if they decide to do so. On a drought year, you have to expect water levels to go down considerably.

[jonnyriabov 4]

Looks like a perfect opportunity to create a great swimming beach for your kids! Clear those rocks while the waters low.

[Guest Wes]

Looks like a perfect opportunity to create a great swimming beach for your kids! Clear those rocks while the waters low.

Hold off on that. Not only is that illegal but you will be removing any structure that will bring fish closer to shore, thus within casting distance. What you could do would be to "organize" the rocks in a more concentrated fashion to provide better structure and give you a smaller but cleaner swimming area. Just a thought. I guess you have to figure out what is more important to you. As others have mentioned, OPG may not be the only culprit here.

[Resource Pimp 60]

I lay some blame on OPG. They traditionally draw down Shebandowan all winter and don't close the dam untill April 15th, as the attached link shows. http://www.opg.com/safety/water/river/kaministiquia/sheb.pdf Local residents were calling OPG the 3rd week of March telling them our concern that the snow was gone and there would be no spring run off, the lake was low and they should close the dam. They said we tradionally get spring rains.. I actutally told them that the US National Weather Service 3 month forcast map for the upper mid-west (specifically the arrowhead region of minnesota) was forcasting less than average precipitation for march, april and may.. They told me no one monitors the weather closer than OPG. I told them maybe they should look at the trend of previous 4 months and not rely on tradition. They basically blew me off, the same with the other locals that called with their concern.

I have 2 docks on cribbing that are useless, and yet they opened the Shebandowan dam yesterday to let more out. Come Tuesday OPG will be below the "lower compliance" level as the graph shows. Whats the penalty???? Not a dam thing as far as I know. What the hells the use of having a upper and lower compliance level if theres no penalty? OPG will deal with the water as they see fit and theres not a dam thing anyone can do about it, except beach your boat.

Its a farce to have compliance levels with no penalty. The comittee that wrote that plan should have their gonads cut off.

[Guest Limiter]

I would like to see practical use of water resources. Even though it was clear there was little snow on the ground OPG and MNR continued the draw-down on Kashabowie at a level of past years when there was lots of snow cover. The water leakage around the dam needs to be looked at and practical management of this resource needs to be implemented. The entire draw down curve for this entire area needs to be looked at. I have yet to catch a walleye in Kashabowie and the fish that I have heard about caught were not spawned out. This is criminal in my eyes and MNR and OPG should be held accountable.

Just like many of the other lakes in our region Kashabowie is also low. OPG needs to seriously re-evaluate their water management in this region as I believe many of the lakes will not recover this year.

Kashabowie dam remains open and for what reason? Last I checked Shebandowan is down a foot at the most and the campers there are able to keep their boats tied up to their docks, everyone at Kash needs to trailer their boat to and from the public launch every time they want to head out fishing. This is sad especailly when you pay a year docking fee, should get OPG to pay for that!

Pictures attached show the water level is down 5ft in depth and thats being conservative as it's more like 6-7ft in water depth.

I usually only have 2-3 feet of beach.

[Guest cuzzinolaf]

I would like to see practical use of water resources. Even though it was clear there was little snow on the ground OPG and MNR continued the draw-down on Kashabowie at a level of past years when there was lots of snow cover. The water leakage around the dam needs to be looked at and practical management of this resource needs to be implemented. The entire draw down curve for this entire area needs to be looked at. I have yet to catch a walleye in Kashabowie and the fish that I have heard about caught were not spawned out. This is criminal in my eyes and MNR and OPG should be held accountable.

Its pretty hard for the fish to spawn in their natural habitat which has been there since before christ when it is high and dry and might not ever come back! Its time for the ministry to take just the money grab from non-resident sports card and buy some fingerlings and stock them in the needed lakes!!Also the smallmouth bass are overtaking some good walleye waters and need to be thinned out to past levels! just my .02 worth

[Guest Run N Gun]

No the dam at Kash is not closed, last week they had three shims in between the logs and now I see this weekend they have one, if it was closed there would be not water in the Kash River yet it flows. Yes I do understand that mother nature has a big role in this to but look at every lake the OPG is in control of......... just as Pimp Resource stated we too have also complained but were blown off.

It's pretty clear we won't recover 5ft-7ft of water depth this year or maybe next if OPG try's to keep up to their minimums.

Where is the MNR in all of this?

(Nice post Limiter)

Kevin

[Guest lacman]

No the dam at Kash is not closed, last week they had three shims in between the logs and now I see this weekend they have one, if it was closed there would be not water in the Kash River yet it flows. Yes I do understand that mother nature has a big role in this to but look at every lake the OPG is in control of......... just as Pimp Resource stated we too have also complained but were blown off.

It's pretty clear we won't recover 5ft-7ft of water depth this year or maybe next if OPG try's to keep up to their minimums.

Where is the MNR in all of this?

(Nice post Limiter)

Kevin

As far as I know, OPG is following the water management plan that was set out and agreed upon by MNR and other stakeholders. If people have problems with the plan then they should speak up when they are negotiating the plan, which I believe everyone is welcome to participate in. The resultant water levels surely cannot be blamed on 1 entity. Can there be a water management plan that would satisfy everyone as well as all MNR regs and environmental considerations? Not sure. It's not simply whether they want to make power or not. There are lake levels, minimum river flows, and many other environmental considerations to consider.

There are minumum flows that have to be kept on rivers, especially when fish are spawning. I suspect this had a MAJOR impact on whether or not OPG was moving water on the rivers. I know that on the Nipigon river they keep the water levels consistant from fall to spring even if Lake Nipigon is decreasing in level. This is so that fall spawn doesn't freeze before they hatch (if water levels on river decreased, eggs would freeze). This is very likely applicable to other rivers, rivers that take water from lakes that are really low right now.

At this time, there is a sturgeon study that is ongoing at Kakabeka which requires a minimum amount of water down the Kam and over the falls. The water needs to come from somewhere, likely why there is still water flowing from some of these lakes. This would explain why the dams are not completely closed. Not sure whether lake levels for campers and fishermen would trump a sturgeon study, especially when sturgeon numbers are on the drop.

OPG is likely following the water management plan to a 'T', which the MNR has sanctioned. This is why the MNR is not stepping in. In order to keep up with minimum river flows and fish studies, some lakes have suffered.

[Resource Pimp 60]

As far as I know, OPG is following the water management plan that was set out and agreed upon by MNR and other stakeholders. If people have problems with the plan then they should speak up when they are negotiating the plan, which I believe everyone is welcome to participate in. The resultant water levels surely cannot be blamed on 1 entity. Can there be a water management plan that would satisfy everyone as well as all MNR regs and environmental considerations? Not sure. It's not simply whether they want to make power or not. There are lake levels, minimum river flows, and many other environmental considerations to consider.

There are minumum flows that have to be kept on rivers, especially when fish are spawning. I suspect this had a MAJOR impact on whether or not OPG was moving water on the rivers. I know that on the Nipigon river they keep the water levels consistant from fall to spring even if Lake Nipigon is decreasing in level. This is so that fall spawn doesn't freeze before they hatch (if water levels on river decreased, eggs would freeze). This is very likely applicable to other rivers, rivers that take water from lakes that are really low right now.

At this time, there is a sturgeon study that is ongoing at Kakabeka which requires a minimum amount of water down the Kam and over the falls. The water needs to come from somewhere, likely why there is still water flowing from some of these lakes. This would explain why the dams are not completely closed. Not sure whether lake levels for campers and fishermen would trump a sturgeon study, especially when sturgeon numbers are on the drop.

OPG is likely following the water management plan to a 'T', which the MNR has sanctioned. This is why the MNR is not stepping in. In order to keep up with minimum river flows and fish studies, some lakes have suffered.

Check the graph this week when its finally updated http://www.opg.com/safety/water/river/kaministiquia/sheb.pdf It will show they are below their lower compliance level. They are not following the plan to a T. The outflow dam on Sheban was opened Friday and the water has already dropped an inch since then.

[Guest lacman]

Check the graph this week when its finally updated http://www.opg.com/safety/water/river/kaministiquia/sheb.pdf It will show they are below their lower compliance level. They are not following the plan to a T. The outflow dam on Sheban was opened Friday and the water has already dropped an inch since then.

OK did a bit of research this morning and found some answers.

Minimum flow on the Kam river is 17 CMS. This has to do with spawn, fish studies, water levels, water temps etc. etc. The MNR will not move on this 17 CMS as it affects MANY people and environmental issues. An example is oxygen levels go down too low when the flow is below that level. Also, Bowater needs the river at that level to not adversely affect water temps affected by their production. Spawn also gets killed when flows drop below that value.

Kam river is fed from Kash, Sheb and Dog lake. Dog is so low that they won’t take ANY water from it until it recovers. The only water they take is what they need to keep up with the 17 CMS flow on the Kam. Kash and Sheb feed the Kam river as well. They have the Kash dam open slightly to protect the spawn in the Kash river. This will remain open until the MNR determines the spawn is over and then it will be closed. Sheb is open as well as the 17 CMS needs to be met on the Kam river, and water has to come from somewhere. If that means the lakes go lower, then I guess that’s what’s going to happen.

All of these decisions are made by a standing advisory committee which has members from MNR, OPG, Abitibi, Dog Lake, Kashabowie, Shebandewon, Kam river. They meet regularly and collectively decide how to manage the water levels based on the conditions, taking into account spawning, flows that have to be met etc etc. Everyone has a say as it affects them all.

As you can see, a little bit of research goes a long way. People should try it sometime…

[Resource Pimp 60]

OK did a bit of research this morning and found some answers.

Minimum flow on the Kam river is 17 CMS. This has to do with spawn, fish studies, water levels, water temps etc. etc. The MNR will not move on this 17 CMS as it affects MANY people and environmental issues. An example is oxygen levels go down too low when the flow is below that level. Also, Bowater needs the river at that level to not adversely affect water temps affected by their production. Spawn also gets killed when flows drop below that value.

Kam river is fed from Kash, Sheb and Dog lake. Dog is so low that they won’t take ANY water from it until it recovers. The only water they take is what they need to keep up with the 17 CMS flow on the Kam. Kash and Sheb feed the Kam river as well. They have the Kash dam open slightly to protect the spawn in the Kash river. This will remain open until the MNR determines the spawn is over and then it will be closed. Sheb is open as well as the 17 CMS needs to be met on the Kam river, and water has to come from somewhere. If that means the lakes go lower, then I guess that’s what’s going to happen.

All of these decisions are made by a standing advisory committee which has members from MNR, OPG, Abitibi, Dog Lake, Kashabowie, Shebandewon, Kam river. They meet regularly and collectively decide how to manage the water levels based on the conditions, taking into account spawning, flows that have to be met etc etc. Everyone has a say as it affects them all.

As you can see, a little bit of research goes a long way. People should try it sometime…

Oh ya, makes a lot of sense to me...........drop Sheban and Kash some more, leave those walleye eggs high and dry for flyfood. The lake spawning walleyes were already in disarray from their traditional shoals being high and dry, now the ones that found alternate spots are haveing their eggs left high and dry. I have observed lake spawning walleyes manytimes, they spawn in 2 ft of water or less . I've seen the males milting the females in water so shallow their dorsal fins were out of the water.

None of the information you gave addresses why they even have a "lower compliance" level on Sheban and Kash. Thats their terminolgy, not mine, and they are out of compliance.

This water management plan was written when Bowater was at full capacity, what are they now? 25%? Less water should be needed to flush less effluent.

As for the sturgeon? Theres no open season on them, and if there were I doubt you'd see the Kam launches jammed up from people puttin in to fish sturgeon.

The bottom line is that the local stakeholders who voiced their legitimate concern back in the end of march were blown off bacause OPG knew better. How many times has the oh so rightious OPG caused floating dead fish in the Nipigon river in the past? A few that I can remember.

I',m not going to get into a pissing match over this...........but its pretty simple. OPG's business is simple..POWER GENERATION.everything else is secondary.

[Guest lacman]

Oh ya, makes a lot of sense to me...........drop Sheban and Kash some more, leave those walleye eggs high and dry for flyfood. The lake spawning walleyes were already in disarray from their traditional shoals being high and dry, now the ones that found alternate spots are haveing their eggs left high and dry. I have observed lake spawning walleyes manytimes, they spawn in 2 ft of water or less . I've seen the males milting the females in water so shallow their dorsal fins were out of the water.

None of the information you gave addresses why they even have a "lower compliance" level on Sheban and Kash. Thats their terminolgy, not mine, and they are out of compliance.

This water management plan was written when Bowater was at full capacity, what are they now? 25%? Less water should be needed to flush less effluent.

As for the sturgeon? Theres no open season on them, and if there were I doubt you'd see the Kam launches jammed up from people puttin in to fish sturgeon.

The bottom line is that the local stakeholders who voiced their legitimate concern back in the end of march were blown off bacause OPG knew better. How many times has the oh so rightious OPG caused floating dead fish in the Nipigon river in the past? A few that I can remember.

I',m not going to get into a pissing match over this...........but its pretty simple. OPG's business is simple..POWER GENERATION.everything else is secondary.

disagree.

[wampa 18]

OPG's business is simple..POWER GENERATION.everything else is secondary.

No really? I think there name kind of spells it out.

[huntnfish 0]

OPG is to blame for water levels??

MNR is to blame for water levels??

Mother nature is to blame for water levels!!

From the lack of snow, to early thaw, to the lack of spring rain, need I go on...

MNR and OPG are trying to do the best they can for the fish and water levels both above and below the power dams. Making power is not a priority with water levels the way they are.

Lacman you got it bang on.

Just my 2 cents

huntnfish

[Resource Pimp 60]

OPG is to blame for water levels??

MNR is to blame for water levels??

Mother nature is to blame for water levels!!

From the lack of snow, to early thaw, to the lack of spring rain, need I go on...

MNR and OPG are trying to do the best they can for the fish and water levels both above and below the power dams. Making power is not a priority with water levels the way they are.

Lacman you got it bang on.

Just my 2 cents

huntnfish

Wow, am I ever stupid..............my whole life I thought OPG erected the dams on Sheban, Kash and Greenwater so that they could manipulate, control and compensate for how little or how much mother nature put on us. Never knew they were for decoration....sorry

[Guest Run N Gun]

No really? I think there name kind of spells it out.

Exactly ....... that's plain and simple!

Lakes not in their control are no where near the dismay these lakes are in.

QUOTE:As you can see, a little bit of research goes a long way. People should try it sometime…

hell ya there is a committee but have you ever sat in on one of these sessions???? It's like talking to a wall....the committee is just a front so OPG can say they sat there and listened to concerns. The real decision's are made higher up....it's all politics.

[Guest Wes]

I see this as a trend that will continue to happen and possibly get worse unless we stop treating this planet like an outhouse. We just went through a dry winter, now water levels are down. OPG, ACHLP, etc. still need to generate power. No-one wants to go back to cooking their toast over the fire. How are we going to charge our cell phones? No-one wants the wind power (HA! now there is an open can of worms.).

So until an alternative is found, situations like this are likely to continue happening. I don't like it, but I am a slave to technology and I am not trading in my truck for a smart car. Hmmm I wonder if I could get a boat rack on a smart car? Throw a lift kit on it… hmmm could be a fun project.

[Guest Smack Um]

I see this as a trend that will continue to happen and possibly get worse unless we stop treating this planet like an outhouse. We just went through a dry winter, now water levels are down. OPG, ACHLP, etc. still need to generate power. No-one wants to go back to cooking their toast over the fire. How are we going to charge our cell phones? No-one wants the wind power (HA! now there is an open can of worms.).

So until an alternative is found, situations like this are likely to continue happening. I don't like it, but I am a slave to technology and I am not trading in my truck for a smart car. Hmmm I wonder if I could get a boat rack on a smart car? Throw a lift kit on it… hmmm could be a fun project.

I am a slave to technology too and don't want to trade in my truck either but help is on the way: >http://www.littlejackfish.com/faq.html

The Little Jackfish Project will create 100 mega watts of hydro electricity and an additional 200 mega watts of wind generated electricity in close proximity to the Ring of Fire.

Check out the website and acompanying map to see the location of the following: Ogoki River, Ogoki Reservoir, Waboose Control Dam, Summit Control Dam and the proposed sites.

Smack Um

[joks 26]

Maybe now would be a time for the ministry to repair some of the launches. The park at Dog lake could use some repair and I am sure there are a few others that would benefit from a little work

Joks

[mmgg 26]

Maybe now would be a time for the ministry to repair some of the launches. The park at Dog lake could use some repair and I am sure there are a few others that would benefit from a little work

Joks

Thats more like it. positive ideas.

Set up a lawn chair on your new beach;

repair your dock and water lines.

[Guest Limiter]

I would be interested in the draw down curves of a few years ago before the MNR started with the spawning Sturgeon in the Kam.

This is the second time in 3 years that Kashabowie has been drawn way down prior to spawn of the walleye.

It seems to be that walleye in Kashabowie and other spring spawners in this lake are being sacrified for Sturgeon in the Kam. I would also be interested to know who our rep is on Kashabowie if you know.

The lake has also been eating outboards at a high rate. I will only go up the lake now with the little boat. I had a close call in Skunk Bay.

OK did a bit of research this morning and found some answers.

Minimum flow on the Kam river is 17 CMS. This has to do with spawn, fish studies, water levels, water temps etc. etc. The MNR will not move on this 17 CMS as it affects MANY people and environmental issues. An example is oxygen levels go down too low when the flow is below that level. Also, Bowater needs the river at that level to not adversely affect water temps affected by their production. Spawn also gets killed when flows drop below that value.

Kam river is fed from Kash, Sheb and Dog lake. Dog is so low that they won’t take ANY water from it until it recovers. The only water they take is what they need to keep up with the 17 CMS flow on the Kam. Kash and Sheb feed the Kam river as well. They have the Kash dam open slightly to protect the spawn in the Kash river. This will remain open until the MNR determines the spawn is over and then it will be closed. Sheb is open as well as the 17 CMS needs to be met on the Kam river, and water has to come from somewhere. If that means the lakes go lower, then I guess that’s what’s going to happen.

All of these decisions are made by a standing advisory committee which has members from MNR, OPG, Abitibi, Dog Lake, Kashabowie, Shebandewon, Kam river. They meet regularly and collectively decide how to manage the water levels based on the conditions, taking into account spawning, flows that have to be met etc etc. Everyone has a say as it affects them all.

As you can see, a little bit of research goes a long way. People should try it sometime…

[Guest adams]

if i'm not mistaken, greenwater is also a part of the system feeding into the kam. anyone know whats happening with the dam up there? anyone been in there at all yet this year?

[Resource Pimp 60]

if i'm not mistaken, greenwater is also a part of the system feeding into the kam. anyone know whats happening with the dam up there? anyone been in there at all yet this year?

OPG opened the Greenwater dam...not sure how many logs they pulled. I do know that on their water flow map on their website that flow and level data for Greenwater has been non-operational since last September. I was told they will not be repairing the equipment. I guess they figure that what the public can't see....can't be used against them. They are gambling that mother nature will replace what they are taking from Greenwater before the fall spawn..........just like they gambled on the spring rains for the walleye spawn.